# What were you THINKING? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532 "2023-10-13T19:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 358
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7531 "2026-07-09T17:01:32Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I could call the police and not worry they were going to go nuts and shoot someone, because that’s not how they behave here. No… They are saints. > **[HPD Officers Who Handcuffed 10-Year-Old Can Be Sued For Using Excessive...](https://www.civilbeat.org/2024/07/hpd-officers-who-handcuffed-10-year-old-can-be-sued-for-using-excessive-force-judges-rule/)** > > Judges in the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rule three Honolulu police officers who arrested an elementary school student in 2020 are not entitled to qualified immunity on an excessive force claim. > **[Former Maui Cop Pleads Guilty To Using Unreasonable Force In Taser Incident](https://www.civilbeat.org/2025/08/former-maui-cop-pleads-guilty-to-using-unreasonable-force-in-taser-incident/)** > > Carlos Frate faces up to 10 years in prison for repeatedly using a Taser on a man who did not pose a threat. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7532 "2026-07-09T17:02:37Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > No… They are saints. I don’t live in Honolulu or Maui. Geography matters. And yes, there has been occasional bad behavior even where I live. But I’m not going to risk a woman’s safety because of that, when I have a strong understanding of the elements I’m weighing. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7533 "2026-07-09T17:04:33Z")
Nor do I know exactly where you live, or have any interest in knowing. If you are somehow under the illusion that your department is immune from such things, there isn’t much I can do to talk you out of it. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7534 "2026-07-09T17:05:24Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > Nor do I know exactly where you live, or have any interest in knowing. Translation: I’ve made up my mind, don’t confuse me with the facts. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7535 "2026-07-09T17:06:31Z")
Oh, I’m sorry Carol, I didn’t know that you live in the 1 jurisdiction in America whose police force don’t behave like police forces everywhere else in the country. Thank you for the education. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7536 "2026-07-09T17:07:55Z")
So America is completely homogeneous, and Hawai’i, which has a totally different ethnic and cultural make-up than just about everywhere else, is identical to the continental US. Thanks for letting me know! ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7537 "2026-07-09T17:09:21Z")
Spend five minutes googling “police misconduct litigation Hawaii” and you’ll see that it’s not much different than anywhere else. But, being an upper middle classed white woman, I am sure you’re quite the expert in how your state’s police forces treat everyone. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7538 "2026-07-09T17:10:57Z")
Yes, as a matter of fact, I AM rather knowledgeable on the subject. I might ask, if geography is irrelevant, why did you rush to provide cites from the state of Hawai’i when I posted? After all, location doesn’t matter. I should think you would have chosen any old random instance of police behavior. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7539 "2026-07-09T17:12:40Z")
Because, again, I don’t know, nor want to know, exactly where you live, and provided examples from your state. Perhaps your particular town is a nirvana, and the police are the very best police America has to offer. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7540 "2026-07-09T17:13:52Z")
You know zero about where I live, and it DOES matter. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7541 "2026-07-09T17:16:38Z")
Other than your statement that you live or lived in Hawaii, you’re right, I have no idea. Ok? Again, policing deficits are nationwide, and have effected every state and region of America. You’re free to assume your area is exempt. Statistics probably don’t support that. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7542 "2026-07-09T17:17:25Z")
CairoCarol, I’m sure your community is much safer and the police are less violent than many larger cities. But you’re being naive if you think “suspicious” looking outsiders to your community are completely safe when police approach them. Don’t call it white privilege if that offends you, but it is privilege. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7543 "2026-07-09T17:18:16Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > You’re free to **assume** I _assumed_ nothing. I did the research, met the police, talked to formerly incarcerated people, interacted with police/meth-addicted-homeless situations, and more. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7544 "2026-07-09T17:19:19Z")
I would be suspicious if mjmartin was outside my place from his behavior here! I live in Lake county Ohio. There are a lot of homeless here, I was one once. The police have always been decent. Tempted to post my city so mj can look up stats. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7545 "2026-07-09T17:21:55Z")
A veritable beacon on the hill. How excellent. Glad to know 1 such place exists in this country. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7546 "2026-07-09T17:28:08Z")
Maybe ya’ll SHOULD read the opening page of my link. It notes that Native Hawaiians are disproprotionately arrested and that citizen trust of the police has deteriorated over the years. I’m not claiming that things are perfect here. And sure, one reason I could personally call the cops and feel comfortable about it is because I can rest secure in the knowledge that they won’t turn against ME. If I were an undocumented immigrant, I’d have to suffer whatever crimes were committed against me. I never said the world was fair. I don’t see anyone addressing the vulnerability of women or the fact that as a gender, we understandably feel less secure most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7547 "2026-07-09T17:28:31Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Tempted to post my city so mj can look up stats. Hahaha… Like that would ever happen. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7548 "2026-07-09T17:32:26Z")
I mean, I think we can all agree here that the fundamental problem is not that some individual cops are bad people, or that some individuals are criminals, or that some individuals are too paranoid about criminals, but **the general trend of the “copification” of communities.** That is, more and more interactions between strangers are being mediated by LEOs, even for very commonplace things. Partly this is probably due to the prevalence of firearms carry and uncertainly about whether any particular stranger might be armed and irrational, even if without any criminal intent originally. Partly, probably, due to sensationalist media stories about catastrophic stranger interactions that are statistically very rare. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7549 "2026-07-09T17:35:23Z")
Your post is very reasonable and I personally agree with it (I think - I don’t have any contiguous 48 experience with “copification” but it tracks with what I’ve read), but I doubt that **mjmartin** sees the “fundamental problem” in such measured terms. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2026, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7550 "2026-07-09T17:36:05Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > I live in Lake county Ohio. There are a lot of homeless here, I was one once. The police have always been decent. Tempted to post my city so mj can look up stats Couldn’t find any recent shootings, but a 26 second tasing that left a man braindead, for the crime of playing his music too loudly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=357) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=359)