# What were you THINKING? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532 "2023-10-13T19:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 373
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2026, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7831 "2026-08-05T15:30:32Z")
> [@robby](#): > > “And force and violence are still used to maintain the [current economic] system and to disrupt and destroy alternatives when they spring up” isn’t OTT? Not at all. Force, violence, and legal coercion (backed, of course, by threat of violence) continue to be used to protect existing economic interests and property relations, particularly where communities, workers, or activists threaten profitable industries or major investments. Just looking at[trade unionists](https://www.ituc-csi.org/ituc-global-rights-index-2026): > Half of all countries arrest or detain workers for exercising their union rights, with a sharp rise in violence worldwide. > [@robby](#): > > It was my understanding that this thread was for light pitting when you think someone says something OTT. Do you think Kropotkin was “drunk/high/off their meds”? That should be the OTT standard for inclusion, not political disagreements, especially around easily-vetted statements of fact. > [@robby](#): > > And any cute comment I made about his username and avatar would seem to be inappropriate for a GD thread. That was IMHO perfectly fine for GD (but IANAGreatDebatesMod). It’s bringing it in here that was unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2026, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7832 "2026-08-05T22:49:08Z")
Force and violence is how any government operates. We usually don’t think about it that way, but it’s true. Without it, nothing would ever get done. Hopefully it’s used to the betterment of citizens, though of course that’s not always the case. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2026, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7833 "2026-08-06T00:10:23Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Force and violence is how any government operates. We usually don’t think about it that way, but it’s true. Agreed. Indeed, it can be argued that the monopoly of violence is one of the defining characteristics of a state. > [@Does the state have a monopoly on violence?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-state-have-a-monopoly-on-violence/1024175): > > Continuing the discussion from [Red button or blue button dilemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-button-or-blue-button-dilemma/1024041/294): I do not understand this sentence. Unless I’m mis-understanding, it seems the opposite is true. Have you never heard the term “state [monopoly on violence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence)”? The [state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_(polity)) (in the form of law enforcement officers) is the only entity permitted to employ violence to keep the peace. Indeed, per the Widpedia article, [Max Weber](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Weber) in his essay [Politics as a Vocation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_as_a_Vocation) (1919) stated that the monopoly on violence is the defining conception of… ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2026, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7834 "2026-08-06T02:19:29Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > but haven’t had the \*energy just yet. Perhaps you need a different charging cable? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2026, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7835 "2026-08-06T02:48:20Z")
Ok @scudsucker you done it now, bub! I have been waiting on my chance to get at you. You’ve said the very very wrongest thing. How can you say that? I’d curse you and call you ugly names. Just think some up. I ain’t got that kinda time to spend on a…on…a person like that. Can’t you read the thread and it’s denizens. They want to talk about cables and cords. It’s so clear for everyone to see. Is it dark in your world? (PS. I’m kidding, ya know? Oh, and sorry 'bout that last sentence 🙄 . I liked your joke it was funny) ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2026, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7836 "2026-08-06T03:03:20Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > It ignores that people following the thread are constantly getting notifications of new posts and are wasting time looking for content actually of interest to them. Yep. That’s it in a nutshell. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2026, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7837 "2026-08-06T04:10:58Z")
It’s a bigger problem over in the “Trump is dying” thread. A new post there that doesn’t confirm the thread title is _very_ disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2026, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7838 "2026-08-06T04:13:32Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > A new post there that doesn’t confirm the thread title is _very_ disappointing. Disappointing, yet aspirational. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2026, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7839 "2026-08-06T05:41:14Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Hopefully it’s used to the betterment of citizens, though of course that’s not always the case. You say “not always”, I say “hardly ever”. Corporations aren’t citizens, and benefiting mainly the rich while keeping down the workers is not a nett benefit. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2026, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7840 "2026-08-06T22:14:23Z")
> [@Disinfectus](#): > > I’ll check back in a month or two and see if y’all are still talking about fucking cables. I never fucked a cable in my life and anyone who says otherwise is lying! ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2026, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7841 "2026-08-06T22:19:51Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I never fucked a cable in my life Indeed. That’s not what “laying cable” means by any stretch of imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2026, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7842 "2026-08-06T22:33:12Z")
[![](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTScyw4nQW93Nkn9gN522S_h4ujPxQsTz44kdwsRYRfAGUSo_PWF8-OV-2-&s=10) ](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTScyw4nQW93Nkn9gN522S_h4ujPxQsTz44kdwsRYRfAGUSo_PWF8-OV-2-&s=10) “I’m never getting any.” ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2026, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7843 "2026-08-06T23:38:37Z")
Ever see that Crap movie “The Ballad of Cable Hogue”? Simply Awful! And David Warner plays a freakin’ Priest! So much wrong. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2026, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7844 "2026-08-07T02:23:42Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I never fucked a cable in my life Some people just don’t know how to live. ---
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2026, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7845 "2026-08-07T14:00:53Z")
`https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-dolphins-and-whales-cope-with-extreme-storms-in-the-ocean-read-gigantic-waves/1032198` The mole whacker has got his teeth stuck into a new thread. I predict THIS thread will be all about whales within a week or so. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2026, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7846 "2026-08-07T14:27:50Z")
I was thinking the exact same thing and came here to see if anyone noticed that thread. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2026, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7847 "2026-08-07T14:42:16Z")
It’s not a terrible question. Then it was well answered and he starts the trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2026, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7848 "2026-08-07T15:03:09Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It’s not a terrible question. Maybe not terrible, but not very well thought through. And then they seem disappointed that it was so easily and logically answered, ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2026, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7849 "2026-08-07T15:09:30Z")
Still, I haven’t noticed anything I’d characterize as arguing with answers. Admittedly, I don’t think we have any whale experts on board, but if there’s any skepticism about our replies it’s pretty subtle. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2026, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/7850 "2026-08-07T15:54:23Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > It’s really _really_ not as simple as you think. You’re angry about the US trying to change the rules, fair enough To clarify, though I only mentioned my irritation over attempts to undermine _jus solis_ citizenship in the US, my sentiments are _also_ guided by an undercurrent of discontent and simmering rage from having encountered so many clients whose citizenship status cannot be readily resolved despite their clearly and unambiguously having a US citizen parent. Why? Because they were born abroad. And by “abroad” I mean just across the river, literally in sight of the United States and in what was (and to some degree still is) essentially the same community as what’s on the US side of the border. Or even people who were born on the US side of the border… but good luck proving it when a lot of these rural communities in bumfuck nowhere Texas didn’t have hospitals or county offices nearby to register births. Midwife births. And it’s extra special when you throw the two together and are trying to prove that the Mexican-born descendant of someone who was born in Bumfuck-Along-the-Rio-Grande, Texas is a US citizen when dad’s birth in Nineteen Dickety-Six wasn’t even registered until dad was already 30 and the one horse town (if you could even call it a town—more of a ranch with some huts for the migrant workers to stay in) dad grew up in had a repurposed barn as a “schoolhouse” and it never got integrated into any kind of municipal or county school system so good fucking luck finding attendance records or any other proof that dad had at least 10 years in the US before son was born on the wrong damn side of the g-damn river because of course it was just _cheaper_ to be born there. But of course US law didn’t always require dad to have spent 10 years in the US before he could pass on citizenship to a son born abroad. And indeed, for people born more recently, it doesn’t require quite so much time anymore. Oh, but the best part to that 10-year thing is that 5 of those years have to be after dad turned 14. I mean, just do the math, people. What if dad gets married at a young, but perfectly acceptable age (18) and in this perfectly acceptable (to the prudish mores of yesteryear) marriage manages to get mom pregnant on their wedding night? It may well be mathematically impossible for dad to transmit citizenship to a child born “abroad” (on the wrong fucking side of the river because it’s cheaper to live and give birth there) under such circumstances. And god help you if dad _did_ live on the wrong side of the river when mom gave birth, and only worked on the US side (because of course it was cheaper to live on one side, but you get more money working on the other). In which case dad doesn’t get full credit even for the days he worked in the US: we have to start counting _hour by fucking hour_ to try and come up with 10 years of presence (5 of which must have been after turning 14). _I mean, fuck me to tears, right? If only these fucking people would just be more integrated into our society, right? It really is a “both sides” issue, isn’t it?_ No. Statelessness is a problem created by states, not the stateless. Likewise, these problems I encounter around ambiguity over US citizenship (a close cousin to statelessness—especially where someone actually was born in the US but can’t prove it because the records don’t exist anymore or never existed at all and everyone who might have direct personal knowledge is looooooong dead). > [@Filbert](#): > > Roma tradition basically gives the ‘head of the household’ the final say on what happens within his house- if he considers violence against his wife and children acceptable, no-one else has a right to interfere. See? That right there? When abuse (and denying access to basic services is abuse) is allowed to create stateless children, or children who cannot prove their nationality, that’s not a problem created by the stateless children, that’s a problem of _the state_. If a state wanted to, it could craft laws such that people born into such an abuse-prone atmosphere could more easily escape it and be accepted in the wider society. That states do not is, again, a problem created by the state, not the stateless. > [@Filbert](#): > > but of course not being officially resident comes with not being registered with local healthcare. Once more, a problem created by the state, not the stateless. > [@Filbert](#): > > There’s also no obvious country which should be granting citizenship to someone who’s lived in multiple countries over the last few years, but can’t actually prove any of it. Again, a problem created by the state, not the stateless. Countries have full control over not only who they will deem a citizen, national, or resident, but also which services they will limit to citizens, nationals, or residents. The stateless, by contrast, have no control at all. > [@Filbert](#): > > Of course it raises all kinds of red flags if you show up with a 3 year old and try register them, that probably shouldn’t be a rule with exemptions. A problem created by the state, and one which, as indicated above, I have personally encountered quite often along the US-Mexico border, and not limited to migrant workers’ families, even. Sometimes, geography gets in the way. > [@Filbert](#): > > Do European countries want a system where anyone showing up with no documentation and no record of entry automatically grants citizenship, or does that get granted only to one- not very well defined- ethnic group? Do European countries want a system that promotes statelessness among certain heavily marginalized ethnic groups? If so—say it with me now—that’s a problem created by the state, not the stateless. > [@Filbert](#): > > The belief that having identification helps refugees get permission to stay is already common, and already leads to people destroying passports or other evidence of existing citizenship, and incredibly risky attempts to enter Europe. There was literally a mass death event yesterday of refugees when about 50,000 people tried to enter a Spanish enclave in Africa, following a -false- rumour that anyone who made it there couldn’t be returned, and dozens of people are thought to have drowned. Yep. Enforcing arbitrary borders that are calculated to restrict the free movement of people (and peoples) sure does lead to a lot of violence, I’ll give you that. You know who creates borders and sets the regime for their enforcement with violence? It’s surely not the stateless. Nor is it refugees. Not even mere “economic migrants” (referencing a term that gained traction in Regan’s America to minimalize the dangers and hardships faced by certain Central and South American immigrants trying to establish themselves in the US). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=372) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=374)