# What were you THINKING? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532 "2023-10-13T19:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/781 "2024-01-05T23:17:41Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Ever notice that when young children start off saying “She…” without any antecedents, the referent is always Mom? I’ve been hearing this since I was a young child myself, and the “She…” is always implicitly understood. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > My kid is almost four and I don’t think he even understands gender yet. He calls objects “she” all the time but I’ve seen no indication he groks the difference between girls and boys much less gendered pronouns. My oldest is 2 and she does not have gendered pronouns down yet either. So for example, when referring to the dog themed inflatable Christmas decorations my neighbor set up, she says: “The doggie! She is awake[inflated]! Let’s go see him!” ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/782 "2024-01-05T23:27:10Z")
That is super cute! In all fairness, **Wee Weasel** doesn’t have “you” or “I” pronouns down yet, either. He doesn’t understand that they change depending on who’s talking. So he always refers to himself as “you” because that’s what we call him. I think that is relatively normal. But I am confident his lack of awareness about his gender isn’t just language-based. He cannot answer the question of whether he’s a girl or a boy, because that question has no meaning to him. (It’s a question that comes up on all the screenings for developmental delays and even an IQ test they recently administered. He could not say.) ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/783 "2024-01-05T23:35:11Z")
Is there a reason you have not told him he’s a male? I get it if you wanna let him decide later. But surely you said at appts, “My little boy…”. That kinda thing is normal parent speak when talking to people about their child. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/784 "2024-01-05T23:35:43Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > In all fairness, **Wee Weasel** doesn’t have “you” or “I” pronouns down yet, either. He doesn’t understand that they change depending on who’s talking. So he always refers to himself as “you” because that’s what we call him. I think that is relatively normal. My brother has autism and is an adult but he still had trouble with exactly that at times. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > He cannot answer the question of whether he’s a girl or a boy, because that question has no meaning to him. My daughter does “know” that she is a girl, a bit to my surprise - in the sense that the other day while she was wearing her unicorn hoodie, I asked her if she was a unicorn, and she said “no - I am a girl!”. But she definitely doesn’t know what a “boy” is - she must have picked it up from comparisons with her baby sister (ie, your sister can’t run, jump, talk, eat solids, etc - because she is a baby - and you are a big girl) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/785 "2024-01-05T23:44:24Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > But surely you said at appts, “My little boy…”. That kinda thing is normal parent speak when talking to people about their child. Not to speak for @Spice_Weasel, but that sounds like the sort of subtlety that a child with autism wouldn’t pick up on. Sure, you could sit him down and repeat to him that the answer to the question is “boy” until he can correctly answer the question (or maybe you caring so much will make him decide that it’s hillarious to answer “girl” from now on…) If you’re not going to actually generate a real understanding of maleness through this conversation, I don’t really see the point of making a big deal about it. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/786 "2024-01-05T23:52:34Z")
Okay. I have very sparse understanding of Autism. I just wanted to know if there’s a reason to not do it. Seems they can and do learn. If a IQ tester decided it was important enough to have it on the list, I think _I_ would maybe teach that. But like I said, I have little knowledge of this. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/787 "2024-01-06T00:25:53Z")
I’ve told him many times he’s a boy. He has no idea what it means. Just tonight I asked him, “Are you a boy or girl?” He said, “Girl.” Then he asked, “Am I a girl?” I said, “You’re a boy.” (As far as we know.) I said, “Is Daddy a boy or girl?” “Girl.” “Nope, Daddy’s a boy. How about Mama?” “Boy.” He has no clue what any of it means, and he doesn’t tend to retain things that don’t have meaning to him. This is fairly typical for an autistic child. Whether you are a boy or a girl is often understood implicitly through social cues at this age. Kids this age may respond to social modeling, so a little girl might try to mirror what her mother does, thinking “this is what girls do.” So much of that process is automatic. But he doesn’t read social cues, so he doesn’t understand gender as a social construct. What does a three year old’s gender really matter anyway? It only matters in terms of social belonging. That’s why it does show up as a question on all of these tests. To be three years old, and not know your own gender, by itself is not necessarily indicative of anything. But taken with other signs of communication and social problems you have more evidence for autism. Another question for example that commonly comes up is showing the kid a drawing of half a stick person. Most kids at age two or three look at a half of a stick person and know it’s a half-drawn person. If you ask them “What is that?” They say “A person.” It looks meaningless to many autistic kids. When we asked my son, he repeated “What is that?” Which is echolalia and common with autism. It’s fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/788 "2024-01-06T00:34:48Z")
I have to say @Spice_Weasel , I have learned much about this from your posts. And, yes it is fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/789 "2024-01-06T01:02:18Z")
Gotta tell ya, **Beck** , the older I get and the more I learn, the more I realize how much I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/790 "2024-01-06T01:02:57Z")
Ain’t it the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/791 "2024-01-06T02:18:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > (or maybe you caring so much will make him decide that it’s hillarious to answer “girl” from now on…) That is absolutely my son. The height of hilarity for him right now is giving the incorrect answer. I think it’s just a phase. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I have to say @Spice_Weasel , I have learned much about this from your posts. Thank you. I was just saying to **Spouse Weasel** when you look at how young autistic children don’t understand gender it’s pretty eye-opening about what a social construct gender is. Don’t get me wrong, I think gender identity is way more complex than social expectations alone, but it makes you think, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/792 "2024-01-06T03:24:11Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > And Dinsdale is a judge… Not a real judge. Not even an immigration judge. He’s some kind of administrative law judge. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/793 "2024-01-06T03:39:54Z")
[![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ejbb4su4Fms/maxresdefault.jpg) ](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ejbb4su4Fms/maxresdefault.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/794 "2024-01-06T04:36:56Z")
My goal in life is to live so long I end up knowing nothing at all. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/795 "2024-01-06T04:43:05Z")
More like “I am the Social Security System.” Although, actually, the thought of Dinsdale gatekeeping something like that is even more… dreadful. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/796 "2024-01-06T05:08:38Z")
It’s why his struggles with compassion bother me as much as they do. He doesn’t seem to be in his job to help people, and he misunderstands so many basic things that he would need to to be a fair judge of whether someone needs disability. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/797 "2024-01-06T09:52:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’re acting as if “dead Palestinian children” is a specific objective of Israel’s and not an unfortunate inevitabilit Yet it is completely fair to say that “dead Palestinian kids” is the only result the IDF are consistently getting. When someone is doing the same thing over and over again they must like the results they’re getting. They (Israel) sure as shit ain’t trying for peace. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/798 "2024-01-06T15:06:39Z")
As I said before, there are legitimate criticisms of mental health professionals and reasons to call out unhelpful public paradigms about mental health. But those criticisms are best made by people who actually understand those issues, and can sort truth from pseudoscience. Almost every mental health condition in existence could plausibly be a disability if it’s severe enough. It just depends on the severity. That said, he has discussed before what criteria he uses to make disability determinations and they seem reasonable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/799 "2024-01-06T15:16:43Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > My daughter does “know” that she is a girl, a bit to my surprise - in the sense that the other day while she was wearing her unicorn hoodie, I asked her if she was a unicorn, and she said “no - I am a girl!”. But she definitely doesn’t know what a “boy” is - she must have picked it up from comparisons with her baby sister (ie, your sister can’t run, jump, talk, eat solids, etc - because she is a baby - and you are a big girl) Similarly, when my nephew was very young, when people asked him what he wanted to be when he grew up, he would say “A girl”. He’s not (to my knowledge) trans; he just knew that his two older sisters got to do a lot of things he didn’t get to do, and he wanted to be able to do them. It hadn’t occurred to him that the reason they got to do those things was just because they were older, not because of their gender. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/800 "2024-01-06T15:27:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Similarly, when my nephew was very young, when people asked him what he wanted to be when he grew up, he would say “A girl”. He’s not (to my knowledge) trans; he just knew that his two older sisters got to do a lot of things he didn’t get to do, and he wanted to be able to do them. When my daughter was very young, people would ask her what she wanted to be when she grew up. _“Santa,”_ she’d plainspokenly reply — explaining, when asked, that it’s, what, one day of work a year, during which people give you cookies, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=41)