# What were you THINKING? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532 "2023-10-13T19:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 97
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1921 "2024-04-02T15:09:09Z")
It’s clearly a matter of how you mentally adapt to it. I’m certainly not chained to my bed(Well, I have been in restraints in the hospital for various reasons for my safety) but my choices are limited. I’m not unhappy and have lots of help. But not exactly free, anymore.😐 ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1922 "2024-04-02T15:42:45Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > It is more than just teens. Plenty of non-high school kids. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > At least in my area (suburban Chicago), the McDonald’s are rarely staffed by high schoolers, unless they are _very_ mature-looking high schoolers. > [@needscoffee](#): > > I’ve seen plenty of adults working there lately. Yeah, at one point, the early 80s IIRC, 25% of the workforce in the US had worked at MickeyD at some time in their youth. The days of teens getting their first job experience there, or any fast food shop, are long past and most workers are adults making money the only way they can. That’s why there’s been a big push to get the minimum wage raised. I remember a McDonalds ad some years ago, one of those feel-good ads not pushing a particular product, where a “senior citizen” tugs on the door of one, finds it locked, and taps on the glass. A teen girl inside says through the door, “I’m sorry, sir, but we’re not open yet.” Smiling, he hold up his McDonalds visor – he works there – she get an ‘oops’ look on her face and lets him in. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1923 "2024-04-02T15:52:17Z")
I see no shame at all at adults working at restaurants. I bet they’re better employees, better servers and ain’t back there in that kitchen playing games or on their phone. It’s hard hard work. My only experience was volunteering in a concession stand at the highschool my kids attended. Never worked harder in my life. I respect these people. Altho’ put a snippy, 17yo with a bad attitude on the counter and I’m not gonna be happy. I’d more likely walk out before ever confronting. Mgrs should know this. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1924 "2024-04-02T16:10:41Z")
> [@ColdBrew50](#): > > I’m not responding here, in the appropriate place this time, to try to convince anyone of anything, nor have I made a detailed study of the matter. So it’s just a very strong opinion, pulled out of your ass, based on you not really paying attention to the comic at all, and you’re not going to offer anything in the way of reasoning behind the opinion. Okay then. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1925 "2024-04-02T16:24:01Z")
> [@ColdBrew50](#): > > When I said what’s his name is illiterate, I didn’t mean he didn’t have a small portion of a career as likely a very good technician, and the suitable technical training to support that career. So when you said he’s illiterate, you didn’t mean that he’s illiterate. I’d advise using words so that they mean something; preferably something other than their opposites. > [@ColdBrew50](#): > > I think he’s an execrable specimen with a most juvenile manner of expression, 99% of the time, and I dislike his Brahman-like status as a god among nerds. So you don’t like the comic. That’s certainly a defensible position – in fact, it doesn’t need any defense; what you don’t like is what you don’t like, by definition. Being annoyed that other people like it is less justifiable; but certainly a common human reaction. ETA: And being annoyed if other people keep shoving in your face something that you don’t like is certainly understandable. Making up bullshit about it in order to defend the fact that you don’t like it is another matter entirely; and isn’t going to go over at all well on this board. Say you don’t like it; say you think it’s puerile; say you don’t think it’s funny. Say you’re sick of other people referencing it (though I don’t expect that’ll stop us.) Don’t make up shit out of nowhere about the strip or its author. > [@ColdBrew50](#): > > Man’s intuition. In other words, you’ve got zilch? > [@ColdBrew50](#): > > Whether it be that girly-girl he festish-draws with the beret, or whatever. No, no matter how many times he may make the “woman” (in his perverse stylization of her What on earth? Do you think he has a fetish for stick figures? They’re all drawn the same, except for occasional hats and bits of hair used mostly to identify recurring characters. Do you think he’s perverse _because_ he draws women as stick figures? That’s how he draws everybody. – but thank you for coming into the thread and settling the question as to whether you just had Munroe mixed up with somebody. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1926 "2024-04-02T16:26:45Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I have lots of friends (I’m from Pakistan) who think I’m misogynistic because I don’t believe in “protecting women and preserving their status”. That’s…startling to me. It shouldn’t be - it absolutely makes sense in context, it just never really occurred to me as a possible definition. I’m always find it interesting when one of my cultural blinders gets dragged into the light. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1927 "2024-04-02T16:36:02Z")
Yeah. Some of the people who think that way genuinely think that they’re honoring women. And that includes some of the women. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1928 "2024-04-02T16:42:10Z")
> [@FluffyBob](#): > > I have to say I am surprised by those studies as my experience doesn’t support that. > > I was way less stressed when I was just on the tools and not running everything. I slept much better after a day a physical work as opposed to having a hundred projects to manage and plenty of balls to drop. > [@Stratocaster](#): > > Just one more data point, but I agree with Bob. I had a high-stress executive role in a Fortune 100 financial firm for decades. Washing dishes at a diner when I was a kid was mindless and largely stress-free. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > It’s clearly a matter of how you mentally adapt to it. Sorry everyone. I’m guilty of expressing about half my point. Or said another way, I’m guilty of invisibly importing a lot of context from others’ earlier post(s) into mine without telling you. Oops on me. 🤦‍♂️ I too have had upper management jobs (admittedly only in small companies), low level supervisory jobs in big to huge companies, and basic “just do your tasks and shut up” jobs. The latter can be very comfortable / satisfying / low stress. Or can be absolute hell if working for a martinet, a micromanager, or simply in a situation of overwhelming workload / pace that cannot be kept up with. All while being unable to affect the working conditions nor, due to life circumstances, to address the Gordian knot by quitting. That is trapped with a capital “T” and it sucks. The “caught in the middle” low end supervisory jobs are a different, but usually more excruciating form of Hell than the grunt jobs when / where things are bad. Lots of responsibility for results with near-zero authority to affect circumstances. That’s the bad side of trapped. Conversely, being “trapped” below management level at a calm gig working at a calm pace can be a very zen-tastic career. I spent a few years there and loved it too. But I wasn’t trapped by circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1929 "2024-04-02T16:51:38Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > > > I have lots of friends (I’m from Pakistan) who think I’m misogynistic because I don’t believe in “protecting women and preserving their status”. > > That’s…startling to me. It shouldn’t be - it absolutely makes sense in context, it just never really occurred to me as a possible definition. I’m always find it interesting when one of my cultural blinders gets dragged into the light. I had the same reaction. Both the initial surprise and the “Oh yeah … of _course_” follow-on. 15-20 years ago I saw a two (?) panel comic, probably in a mainstream newspaper or magazine. I doubt it could be Googled up off my poor memory, so I haven’t tried. In the first panel we see two women at opposite panel edges walking towards one another. One is wearing a bikini & high heeled sandals, a big sun hat, is carrying a giant purse / beach bag with “feminine” decorations all over it, has overgrown gotta-be-fake nails, lips, breasts, and buttocks, and is drawn with the little extra contour lines to indicate an exaggerated sashaying walk. Coming the other way is a woman in a _chador_ or _burka_ (I’m not up on the distinction), but anyway a shapeless bulky head-to-toe covering where we see only her eyes, and know her sex only from her clothing, not her form. In the second panel they’ve just passed one another and are walking apart. There’s a single thought-balloon above the space between them, with attribution lines going towards _both_ women’s heads. The thought-balloon says something close to: > Poor victim of male exploitation! Glad I’m not _her_. That image has stuck with me ever since. Not that it’s deep wisdom or that both women are equally correct in some objective sense. But that particular arrow has barbs on it. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1930 "2024-04-02T16:56:33Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The “caught in the middle” low end supervisory jobs are a different, but usually more excruciating form of hell than the grunt jobs when / where things are bad. > > Conversely, being “trapped” below management level at a calm gig working at a calm pace can be a very zen-tastic career. You just succinctly described my 30+ year career. I’ve avoided management because my grunt job (it’s a skilled and licensed grunt job, but still) pays well and is generally super-low stress. I work mostly unsupervised with considerable independence of action and concurrent responsibility. Meanwhile the next rung up in supervision is universally considered the absolute worst gig. You get kicked from below and shit on from above with little ability to affect outcomes. Also because of a few questionable decisions made over the years, you are not just not properly compensated - you’re actually a bit exploited. You are regularly forced to take the responsibility of the next step up the ladder but with none of the pay. It’s startlingly unfair and a classic “makes a demotion look attractive” job. In fact one of my more recent co-workers did exactly that and he’s happy as a clam having done so 😀. And he has also lost almost no significant income having done so (granted it was a little closer to a lateral even dropping out of management, since we’re a very small, higher-paid skilled unit). The higher level gigs aren’t so bad and are properly compensated. But I’d have had to endure variable years, maybe many, at the shit end to climb the ladder. Not worth it. I’ll retire comfortably and more or less financially secure as a skilled grunt, with no serious work PTSD. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1931 "2024-04-02T16:57:45Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The “caught in the middle” low end supervisory jobs are a different, but usually more excruciating form of hell than the grunt jobs when / where things are bad. Lots of responsibility for results with near-zero authority to affect circumstances. That may well have been the most stressful job I ever had, being a newly promoted front-line supervisor. Accountability for my unit’s metrics while trying to figure out how to do the job, getting challenged by subordinates and undermined by superiors. This was decades ago, and saying it was unfair or you felt overmatched on account of your inexperience was the equivalent of saying you just can’t cut it. So one just stressed out while pretending all was good, hoping nothing caught fire in the meantime. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1932 "2024-04-02T17:11:29Z")
-parses out the bits about ColdBrew50 from the new thread topic- Great Debates: Low Responsibility and low pay vs High Stress and High compensation, Now in the Pit Motherfuckers! 😆 I love the Pit. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1933 "2024-04-02T17:20:56Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > > > I have lots of friends (I’m from Pakistan) who think I’m misogynistic because I don’t believe in “protecting women and preserving their status”. > > That’s…startling to me. It shouldn’t be - it absolutely makes sense in context, it just never really occurred to me as a possible definition. I’m always find it interesting when one of my cultural blinders gets dragged into the light. I’ve seen that perspective quite a lot. It tends to go with transphobia, too. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1934 "2024-04-02T17:21:49Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > In the second panel they’ve just passed one another and are walking apart. There’s a single thought-balloon above the space between them, with attribution lines going towards _both_ women’s heads. The thought-balloon says something close to: > > > Poor victim of male exploitation! Glad I’m not _her_. I saw that cartoon, too. It was a very good one. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1935 "2024-04-02T17:28:54Z")
Of course, both of them are also, at least in part, victims of female exploitation, too. The rules might come from men, but they’re often enforced by other women. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1936 "2024-04-02T17:31:10Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > You just succinctly described my 30+ year career. I’ve avoided management because my grunt job (it’s a skilled and licensed grunt job, but still) pays well and is generally super-low stress. I work mostly unsupervised with considerable independence of action and concurrent responsibility. > > Meanwhile the next rung up in supervision is universally considered the absolute worst gig. You get kicked from below and shit on from above with little ability to affect outcomes. You just described my position exactly. I do skilled IT work, I work for the government so have great benefits and job security (and I’m in a union). My job involves helping people, solving puzzles, and constantly learning new things. For me it’s the ideal job. I don’t make tons of money but I make enough (when combined with my wife’s income) that I don’t stress about money either as long as I don’t live extravagantly (and I have no desire to). I spent so many years scraping by that this feels like being wealthy. The only way for me to “advance” at my organization is to become a manager. I’ve been a manager/supervisor before. I know I’m capable of it but I think I’m in the role I’m best at and I have no desire to basically change my job for a tiny bit more money. No thanks. I love what I do and I want to do it until I can retire (with a pension). ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1937 "2024-04-02T17:33:31Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > For all practical purposes in the USA today in 2024, Tesla makes cars trying to be self-driving and NOBODY else does. Nobody. > > Any discussion about (semi-) self-driving cars is gonna be about Teslas. Because other than experimental handful-of-vehicles things like Waymo’s un-manned taxis [but with safety drivers], no consumer owns or has driven/ridden a (semi-) self-driving car of any other brand. This is just incredibly wrong. Waymo has driven millions of miles completely unmanned (I’ve taken dozens of trips myself). Zoox is starting robotaxi service in Las Vegas soon. Tesla is only in the conversation at all because they’ve fooled a large portion of their userbase to act as safety drivers for their testing (and to pay for the privilege) and they’re still behind. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1938 "2024-04-02T17:41:20Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I saw that cartoon, too. It was a very good one. Thirded. (She says, somewhat smugly, from inside her work pants and flat shoes.) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1939 "2024-04-02T17:43:35Z")
Tesla is dominating the conversation because we have posters who have Teslas and use self driving on a regular basis. Who here has the ability to talk about Waymo or Zoox on a regular basis? You might get a report a month out of those guys. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/1940 "2024-04-02T17:53:08Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > ut that particular arrow has barbs on it. For sure. Having lived the vast majority of my adult life in countries (Indonesia and Egypt) where veiling to various degrees has been popular to a greater or lesser extent over the past few decades, and having had conversations with a lot of Muslim women, I have a very different perspective on hijab/chador/ than most Westerners I know. Not every woman who veils has the same motivations and thoughts, of course. But here are a couple of concepts that women who veil may often have - and yet, this seems to be completely lost on a lot of people in the West: 1. “What a relief it is to be able to wear modest clothing without being criticized. Back when I dressed in sweaters and jeans(\*) men always felt like they had permission to comment on my body, to stare brazenly and lustfully at me, and even to grope me on public transit. Thankfully that rarely(\*\*) happens now.” 2. “I may not be super religious, but I sure as hell am not going to let the West, which mostly seems to denigrate my religion/culture and assume we are all a bunch of terrorists, tell me what to do. I shall wear hijab with PRIDE - it’s _my_ country, _my_ religion, _my_ culture.” (\*) People on this board are probably overall smart enough to know this already, but I think a lot of folks who lack exposure to the day-to-day life of Muslims may not realize that under that modest clothing (or quickly changed into when back at home) are perfect “normal” clothes. Women you may only see as a BMO (Black Moving Object - that’s what we rather unkindly called them in Egypt) may be dressed to the nines with great taste and beauty when they are home with family or female friends. (\*\*) Accuracy compels me to note that modest dress of any kind is not a 100% guarantee against groping on the bus or subway. That’s why transit in Indonesia sometimes has all-women cars, so they can avoid it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=96) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=98)