# What & when was the first documented vote? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 19, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023 "2015-04-19T02:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PurpleClogs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f04885/32.png) [@PurpleClogs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PurpleClogs)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/1 "2015-04-19T02:48:57Z")
What & when was the first documented vote? For anything, by anyone, anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/2 "2015-04-19T04:07:06Z")
That’s a really vague question. And would get a pointless answer like “when the first evilving multi-celled organism voted to clime out of the slimy sea onto land, in x million BC”. If you restrict it a bit to _When was the first documented public vote for a political leader?_, a possible answer is 510BC, when the citizens of Rome first elected a Consul. The Egyptian Pharoes were around much before that, but they were not voted into the title. ---
**Author:** ![PurpleClogs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f04885/32.png) [@PurpleClogs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PurpleClogs)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2015, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/3 "2015-04-19T06:07:00Z")
Well, I didn’t want to assume that the first documented vote was necessarily political. It may have been written, carved, or depicted evidence of a vote of what to kill for dinner. I have no clue, hence the question. But knowing the political answer is interesting too. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/4 "2015-04-21T09:36:19Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > If you restrict it a bit to _When was the first documented public vote for a political leader?_, a possible answer is 510BC, when the citizens of Rome first elected a Consul. Athenian democracy predates that. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/5 "2015-04-21T12:16:08Z")
Greek ostrakos - the expulsion of people from Athens by vote - dates from at least 488 BC and May have begun a few years earlier. IIRC Megakles son of Hippocrates was the first to be so exiled. Anyone have anything earlier? ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/6 "2015-04-21T12:17:13Z")
Well the first known writing is Sumerian, and there is certainly enough records to think they’d have written about a vote on at least one… The concept of formal voting is described in Sumerian writings… They had kings, and councils… the councils were democratic… The reason that there are so many tablets is that the ordinary public servant level person could produce writing… The problem is there is of the order of 50,000 tablets and they are very hard to position in time. Which should be first ? So OP wants to know the time ? Well the earliest recorded vote was written in Sumerian Cuniform, way back before the Spartans and their prodigy the Athenians. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/7 "2015-04-21T12:21:11Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Athenian democracy predates that. No it doesn’t. It got going around 460BC give or take. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/8 "2015-04-21T15:16:51Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > No it doesn’t. It got going around 460BC give or take. Aren’t you forgetting the reforms of Solon? Magistrates were selected by lot or election. Much more information [here](http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/riseofdemocracy/a/050510SolonsCitizenRanks.htm). And then there’s Cleisthenes in 508. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/9 "2015-04-21T15:27:03Z")
508 BC would be _later_ than 510 BC. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/10 "2015-04-21T17:56:37Z")
I’ll go with when Adam and Eve voted on whether or not to eat the apple. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/11 "2015-04-21T18:23:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > 508 BC would be _later_ than 510 BC. Possibly not a coincidence, as the closeness of the dates has caused many historians to think the Romans set the traditional date of the founding of the Republic to “beat” the Athenians by a year. But elective monarchies were pretty common in the ancient world. The Spartan one predates the Republics of Athens and Rome, and I’d be surprised if there weren’t earlier ones. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/12 "2015-04-21T21:47:50Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Possibly not a coincidence, as the closeness of the dates has caused many historians to think the Romans set the traditional date of the founding of the Republic to “beat” the Athenians by a year. But that isn’t the traditional date for the founding of Rome – that was 2 centuries earlier.\* That was the date for the first election of a Consul. And it’s recorded, his name, family, etc. The traditional date for the founding of rome is April 21, 753BC – 2,768 years ago today! ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/13 "2015-04-21T22:32:41Z")
**Rebellion in Heaven**. One third of the angels left obeying ‘_an autocrat Who was not duly elected to His position_’ [vide **Jurgen** \*] and buggered off elsewhere. The vote was listed in **Paradise Lost** , _Book 02_ **Satan:** _Thrones and Imperial Powers, off-spring of heav’n Ethereal Vertues; or these Titles now Must we renounce, and changing stile be call’d Princes of Hell? for so the popular **vote** Inclines_ \*Thus Beelzebub Pleaded his devilish Counsel, first devis’d By Satan, and in part propos’d: for whence, But from the Author of all ill could Spring So deep a malice, to confound the race Of mankind in one root, and Earth with Hell To mingle and involve, done all to spite The great Creatour? But thir spite still serves His glory to augment. The bold design Pleas’d highly those infernal States, and joy Sparkl’d in all thir eyes; with full assent They **vote** : whereat his speech he thus renews. \* **[Dartmouth.edu](https://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/pl/book_2/text.shtml)** - _“It is a comfort, at any rate,” said Jurgen, “to discover who originated the theory of democratic government. I have long wondered who started the notion that the way to get a wise decision on any conceivable question was to submit it to a popular vote. Now I know. Well, and the devils may be right in their doctrines; certainly I cannot go so far as to say they are wrong: but still, at the same time — !”_ ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-when-was-the-first-documented-vote/718023/14 "2015-04-21T22:46:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > 508 BC would be _later_ than 510 BC. Yes, but Solon was before.