# What will be your country's next crusade? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 4, 2007, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462 "2007-07-04T04:42:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/1 "2007-07-04T04:42:32Z")
For example, the United States practiced genocide. OK, we didn’t call it that, but we did try to clear the lands of the Native Americans. Years later, we saw that the Germans were committing genocide against the Jewish people and we used that to motivate Americans to fight Hitler. The Americans had Jim Crow laws, but not long after, we condemned apartheid policies in the African Continent. So, my question is what does your culture now accept that in the future will be rejected internationally? SSG Schwartz ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/2 "2007-07-04T04:54:51Z")
[QUOTE=Sgt Schwartz] For example, the United States practiced genocide. OK, we didn’t call it that, but we did try to clear the lands of the Native Americans. [/QUOTE] Well, we didn’t call it genocide because it really WASN’T genocide…it was a basic land grab from the native peoples. We never tried to systematically kill off the native American’s. This isn’t to say that what we DID was all that wonderful (it wasn’t)…but if you want good old fashioned genocide one needs to look more to our Euro buddies for a good model. We were pikers in comparison (just look up what the Spanish did in the new world if you want some really juicy examples). [QUOTE=Sgt Schwartz] Years later, we saw that the Germans were committing genocide against the Jewish people and we used that to motivate Americans to fight Hitler. [/QUOTE] Societies move on…and what was once acceptable becomes unacceptable to later generations. Especially in non-static societies like our own. For example, since you used a WWII comparison…carpet bombing of masses of civilians was not only acceptable but expected in WWII. Every major combatant did it…and it was a race to see who could wack the maximum number of civilians at one time, culminating in the US ‘winning’ the race (in the fire bombings of Tokyo, not with the atomic bombs as most people think). Our British cousins were running a close second however. That kind of thing is no longer acceptable however. Our society has moved on…and become better for it (IMHO). [QUOTE=Sgt Schwartz] The Americans had Jim Crow laws, but not long after, we condemned apartheid policies in the African Continent. [/QUOTE] Because by the time ‘not long after’ (i.e. by the 80’s) that kind of behavior was no longer acceptable here in the US. We had moved on LONG before we (and our Euro buddies) started to condemn the South Africans for apartheid policies. [QUOTE=Sgt Schwartz] So, my question is what does your culture now accept that in the future will be rejected internationally? [/QUOTE] Were I to guess, I’d say that civilian casualties will increasingly become intolerable, and greater and greater efforts will be poured into further minimizing them. Also, were I to guess I’d say that wars of agression like Iraq will probably also become more intolerable…especially for so flimsy of reasons and by individual or even small groups of nations. In future (IMHO) what we will have is only wars where there is clearly a VERY good reason…and those wars will more resemble GWI than GWII. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/3 "2007-07-04T09:41:47Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Were I to guess, I’d say that civilian casualties will increasingly become intolerable, and greater and greater efforts will be poured into further minimizing them. [/QUOTE] I’m very much afraid that the reverse will be true: people will see that with asymmetric warfare, there will no longer be such a thing as a civilian. Hmm… that inspires me for another question ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/4 "2007-07-04T13:47:27Z")
**xtisme** You are right, it wasn’t technically genocide. The appropriate term for it is ‘ethnic cleansing’, which doesn’t require the death of the group being cleansed only their removal from the land being cleansed. This can be accomplished by pushing them into refugee camps in other countries, like Canada or creating ‘Reservations’, Ghettos if you will, in your own country. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/5 "2007-07-04T13:50:07Z")
As an answer to the OP, I think that trying to force foreign countries to conform to a particular standard will be considered inappropriate in the future. Trying to remake other countries in the western image will fall out of favor. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/6 "2007-07-04T16:29:39Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] As an answer to the OP, I think that trying to force foreign countries to conform to a particular standard will be considered inappropriate in the future. Trying to remake other countries in the western image will fall out of favor. [/QUOTE] I don’t think the US is guilty of trying to force foreign countries to conform to a standard. More like “we don’t ever want another 9/11 and we’ll do whatever it takes to ensure that never happens again.” How many terrorist attacks have there been in the US since September, 2001: zero. Good on ya’ Uncle Sam. And happy birthday while we’re at it. The environmental crusade is the one I fear most. I hope we don’t bankrupt the country attempting to reduce the 1% CO2 that we’re responsible for emitting in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/7 "2007-07-04T16:39:17Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] I don’t think the US is guilty of trying to force foreign countries to conform to a standard. More like “we don’t ever want another 9/11 and we’ll do whatever it takes to ensure that never happens again.” How many terrorist attacks have there been in the US since September, 2001: zero. Good on ya’ Uncle Sam. And happy birthday while we’re at it. [/quote] Yeah, I’m glad Iraq is a Democracy now. It makes me feel so much better about those Saudi Terrorists that were training in Afghanistan and the Sudan. :rolleyes: Before September 11th there weren’t many terrorist attacks in the US either. > [@](#): > > The environmental crusade is the one I fear most. I hope we don’t bankrupt the country attempting to reduce the 1% CO2 that we’re responsible for emitting in Canada. Yeah, I think that we are going about this thing all wrong. Environmentalism is about decreasing individual consumption, but for some people think it’s a great time to have another rock concert orgy of consumption in order to bring awareness to the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/8 "2007-07-04T16:44:40Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] How many terrorist attacks have there been in the US since September, 2001: zero. [/QUOTE] How many were there in the six years before September 2001? As for the topic of the thread: The environment, and animal rights. I believe that in the future, people will sit around wondering how people in the past could treat their surroundings and other animals so badly. Didn’t they _think_? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/9 "2007-07-04T17:24:53Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] I don’t think the US is guilty of trying to force foreign countries to conform to a standard. More like “we don’t ever want another 9/11 and we’ll do whatever it takes to ensure that never happens again.” How many terrorist attacks have there been in the US since September, 2001: zero. Good on ya’ Uncle Sam. [/QUOTE] How many American casualties have there been since 9/11? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/10 "2007-07-04T17:36:36Z")
Never though tI’d live to see the day that someone would defent, and possibly belittle, what some people did to the natives in America. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/11 "2007-07-04T17:43:55Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] Never though tI’d live to see the day that someone would defent, and possibly belittle, what some people did to the natives in America. [/QUOTE] You must be young. I’ve seen it all my life. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/12 "2007-07-04T17:46:30Z")
[QUOTE=Sgt Schwartz] So, my question is what does your culture now accept that in the future will be rejected internationally? [/QUOTE] Capitalism. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/13 "2007-07-04T17:47:20Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Capitalism. 😉 [/QUOTE] Ha, I think that’s farther away than the ‘next’ crusade. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/14 "2007-07-04T17:51:04Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] How many terrorist attacks have there been in the US since September, 2001: zero. [/QUOTE] One, the anthrax attacks (am I the only one that remembers this?) ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/15 "2007-07-04T17:51:38Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] You must be young. I’ve seen it all my life. [/QUOTE] Well, this is true. I’m 26, but I didn’t think I’d see it so blatantly dismissed as a “land grab”. What, people don’t live on that land? I guess it just goes to show you what is important to a subset of people. It’s not other people, it’s land. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/16 "2007-07-04T17:57:35Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] One, the anthrax attacks (am I the only one that remembers this?) [/QUOTE] Don’t forget about all the foiled attacks. Dirty bombs, that plan to detonate the plane over the Atlantic which led to the banning of gels and such, and all those other ones that America forgets about because Uncle Sam is doing his job. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/17 "2007-07-04T18:00:35Z")
[QUOTE=IntelSoldier] Don’t forget about all the foiled attacks. Dirty bombs, that plan to detonate the plane over the Atlantic which led to the banning of gels and such, and all those other ones that America forgets about because Uncle Sam is doing his job. [/QUOTE] Well, the next person would invariably ask “What foiled attacks?” So…what ones are you talking about? The ones that never happened or the ones we never heard about or the ones that never existed? ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/18 "2007-07-04T18:17:09Z")
Back to the OP, if I may. With regard, to Germany I’d like to suggest: **Formerly practiced, currently crusading against** ‘hard’ (legal) discrimination against women Wars of aggression Death penalty Crusades \*\*Formerly practiced widely, still of significant prevalence, incipient crusade against \*\* ‘soft’ discriminiation against women Homophobia Second-hand smoking **Currently prevalent, possible future crusade against** Penalization of recreational drug use where no third party is victimized/endangered Obesity (esp. under the angle that it’s a greenhouse emission promoter) Mass meat production practices **Being promoted today, possibly future crusade against** Biofuels from crops grown for the purpose Oh, and all the crusading issues of two centuries hence are probably totally off my radar. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/19 "2007-07-04T18:30:21Z")
[QUOTE=tschild] Obesity (esp. under the angle that it’s a greenhouse emission promoter) [/QUOTE] 😕 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462/20 "2007-07-04T18:37:50Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] 😕 [/QUOTE] Only decadent capitalist pigs would allow their spoiled little pig children to get so fat. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-be-your-countrys-next-crusade/410462.md?page=2)