# What Will Constitute A Successful Second Term? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760 "2005-01-20T18:16:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/1 "2005-01-20T18:16:42Z")
Now that it is official - George W. Bush is President of the United States (so help him God) for a second 4 year term - the prognosticators and sooth-sayers can all pull out their crystal balls, tea leaves, and sheep intestines and give us their call on what the next 4 years entail. The President has put forth a pretty big agenda for his second term - Social Security reform, continued tax reform, continuing the war against terrorism, bringing peace on earth, good will to man, fighting for truthc, justice, and the American way, getting strict constructionist judges on the bench, and more. So what will he need to accomplish in order to have a successful second term? What are his chances? He’s got a majority in both houses of Congress, so it would appear to be a “slam dunk” (so says the ghost of George Tenent) - has he set the bar so high for himself that he can’t help but continue the tradition of disappointing second terms? ---
**Author:** ![Demorian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demorian/32/7273_2.png) [@Demorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demorian)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/2 "2005-01-20T18:23:05Z")
If he pulls off getting less people killed and less debt than he did in the first 4 years, I’ll consider it a better term than his first, relatively. The bar of “success” is so low for W that… well, I can’t think of anything witty, but it is pretty low. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/3 "2005-01-20T18:45:44Z")
His resignation and suicide would make an excellent start. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/4 "2005-01-20T18:52:36Z")
If we could do something about the chain of succession, just the resignation would be more than sufficient. I’m not at all sure that Dick Cheney, some Tom Delay puppet or Dr. Rice would be any improvement. I could accept General Powell but it’ll have to happen fast. Am I the only guy who thought the inaugural address amounted to “I’m gonna conquer the world, Baahaaahaaahaa!” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/5 "2005-01-20T18:54:48Z")
**BG:** _His resignation and suicide would make an excellent start._ Not funny, **Brain**. C’mon, there are plenty of rational ways to critique Bush without wishing death on the guy, which IIRC is not considered nice here at the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/6 "2005-01-20T19:01:02Z")
The lack of a terrorist attack on the U.S. during the next four years would be a nice notch on Bush’s belt. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/7 "2005-01-20T19:09:34Z")
> [@mstay](#): > > The lack of a terrorist attack on the U.S. during the next four years would be a nice notch on Bush’s belt. We haven’t **had** a terrorist attack on American soil since 2001. Shouldn’t the bar be set a little higher than that? > [@Kimstu](#): > > Not funny, Brain. C’mon, there are plenty of rational ways to critique Bush without wishing death on the guy, which IIRC is not considered nice here at the Dope. It’s funny just because it’s a _Blackadder_ reference (from _Blackadder Goes Forth_ – Captain Blackadder speaking of General Melchet – a reference I would expect most Dopers to get). As for it being considered “not nice here at the Dope” to wish death on people – **that really needs to change. Aldebaran’s** banning was monumentally unfair. And some of the important things we need to debate in this forum – e.g., revolution – require serious discussion about who needs killing. As for the OP – really, there is **no** way Bush can have a second term that is successful both in terms of his own stated policies and agenda, and in terms of the freedom and prosperity of the American people and the health of American democracy. If Bush wins, we lose. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/8 "2005-01-20T19:20:45Z")
> [@](#): > > His resignation and suicide would make an excellent start. [Moderator Hat ON] Tacky, dude. Stop it. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/9 "2005-01-20T19:32:58Z")
> [@Gaudere](#): > > [Moderator Hat ON] > > Tacky, dude. Stop it. > > [Moderator Hat OFF] I repeat: **That really needs to change.** ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/10 "2005-01-20T19:41:03Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > So what will he need to accomplish in order to have a successful second term? From his perspective, the Republicans need to retain control of Congress in 2006, with the same plus the White House in 2008. Period. Everything else is gravy to these power-hungry motherfu—… uh, I mean, that’s the basic definition of “success” to these guys, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/11 "2005-01-20T19:44:48Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] Then take it the Pit and argue that you should be allowed to discuss people “who need killing.” But do NOT argue further here, and if you continue post stuff like above suicide comment you will get banned. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/12 "2005-01-20T19:58:27Z")
This thread is a disgrace. We have so far Commiting Suicide, Resigning and maintain control of the house as goals. I think Dopers can come up with something a bit better than that. Has the hate of Bush gone so far where we can’t even give a honest answer in the first 10 posts? As to my opinion: The Iraq war and the war on terror will be the defining events of this administration. A reasonable amount of success in Bush’s second term will be a successful term irregardless of whether he passes his SS or tax reform. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/13 "2005-01-20T20:05:52Z")
- A stable democracy in Iraq - All US troops out of Iraq - The deficit cut in half (that’s what he said he’d do) - No anti-gay amendments - No more tax cuts for the wealthy - Stable growth in stock market - Steady job growth - No major terrorist attacks Do the above, and I might just move him above Buchanan and possibly Andrew Johnson on my presidential rankings. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/14 "2005-01-20T20:17:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > - A stable democracy in Iraq > > - All US troops out of Iraq > > - The deficit cut in half (that’s what he said he’d do) > > - No anti-gay amendments > > - No more tax cuts for the wealthy > > - Stable growth in stock market > > - Steady job growth > > - No major terrorist attacks > Do the above, and I might just move him above Buchanan and possibly Andrew Johnson on my presidential rankings. But items 4 and 5 on that list would not count as “success” from Bush’s perspective, would they? Neither would item 2. He might say he wants to “end the occupation,” but he would only do it on the same terms the occupation of Germany and Japan were ended – leaving **permanent** U.S. military bases established on the soil of the formerly occupied country. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/15 "2005-01-20T20:27:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But items 4 and 5 on that list would not count as “success” from Bush’s perspective, would they? Neither would item 2. He might say he wants to “end the occupation,” but he would only do it on the same terms the occupation of Germany and Japan were ended – leaving **permanent** U.S. military bases established on the soil of the formerly occupied country. You’re absolutely right. He wouldn’t call 4 and 5 a success, but if he fails to smite the gays and shower more tax breaks to the wealthy, that would be success in my book. For a permanent US base in Iraq, I have no doubt that you are correct and that is what he really wants. But he needs to be careful what he wishes for. A permanent US base in Iraq would cause resentment in the Islamic world to continue to grow and fester. Such a base would, in my opinion, destabilize more that stabilize the region. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/16 "2005-01-20T20:34:37Z")
How about [stopping the dollar’s free-fall?](http://www.forbes.com/window/free_forbes/2005/0110/036.html) ---
**Author:** ![Greenback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/2bfe46/32.png) [@Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/17 "2005-01-20T20:35:19Z")
But a base in the middle east would allow the US to strike at the freedom fight…I mean… terrorists more effectively. I am skeptical about 1 and 2 being possible within 4 years. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/18 "2005-01-20T20:51:21Z")
I’ll take these from Bob: - A stable democracy in Iraq - The deficit cut in half (that’s what he said he’d do) - Stable growth in stock market - Steady job growth - No major terrorist attacks and add these: - a soft landing on the housing bubble \*an interest and inflation rate no more than a something, say 2 points or so above where they are today \*Some Social Security fix that pushes the disaster out further without making it worse down the road \*leaving medicare and medicaid better than he found them WITHOUT pushing the responsibility to the States \*Iran still non-nuclear \*some kind of work on Israel-Palestine that is no worse than today and bonus if better detriment if it is as it was 2-3 years ago. \*OBL has to be dead or in American custody Do this and I say he is a sucsess barring some sh^t we can’t see (as 9-11 would have been 4 years ago today) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/19 "2005-01-20T21:07:51Z")
> [@jimmmy](#): > > and add these: > > - a soft landing on the housing bubble > > \*an interest and inflation rate no more than a something, say 2 points or so above where they are today > > \*Some Social Security fix that pushes the disaster out further without making it worse down the road > > \*leaving medicare and medicaid better than he found them WITHOUT pushing the responsibility to the States > > \*Iran still non-nuclear > > \*some kind of work on Israel-Palestine that is no worse than today and bonus if better detriment if it is as it was 2-3 years ago. > > \*OBL has to be dead or in American custody Is Bush even **aware** of the “housing bubble” problem? I can’t recall ever hearing him mention it. Maybe he has. As for Social Security – we already know he wants to privatize it, which **would** make it worse down the road. And I think he’d like nothing better than to push all responsibility for Medicare and Medicaid onto the states; I can’t remember hearing him say that in so many words, but it’s perfectly in line with the general direction of the Pub agenda ever since Reagan. “Iran non-nuclear” would, IMO, count as a success **only** if that end were achieved without military action; Bush might disagree on that point, but every “war-game” scenario that’s been run on that situation ends in such action leading to a wider war. (I posted a cite on that in an earlier thread, can’t find it right now.) The rest, at least, are items on which Bush would agree with you entirely, and so would practically every other American. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760/20 "2005-01-20T21:37:38Z")
From who’s perspective are we to look at this question? From mine? From Bush’s? From The World™’s? From my own, I think it will be a successful second term if Iraq has a reasonably fair and peaceful (again, reasonably) election, is able to begin the process of getting on back on its own feet and defending itself, and if the situation there stabilized. I SERIOUSLY doubt we will be pulling all our troops out of Iraq, reguardless of what happens (with the exception of if we decide to bolt) in the next 4 years. My thinking is its going to be another South Korea or Germany situation…where we STILL have troops after decades. If he manages to cut the deficit in half I’ll be overjoyed…that would certainly be a success. If he manages to actually revamp the tax system I’ll be stunned to speechlessness. Same goes for SS. My only hope is that he manages to keep taxes reasonably low while cutting the deficit. HOW he’ll do that is anyones guess. I have my own ideas, but Bush, for all he’s decried on this board, loves social programs and I think will continue to dump vast sums into the trough. We’ll see. As for his court appointments, I don’t really see them as having the impact people think they will…and I’m neutral. Won’t be a success for me either way. I think gay marriage is also a dead issue now that the election is passed…and I don’t think the nation is ready for gay marriage yet reguardless so I don’t see this as an issue right now either. So, the bar is pretty high for GW in my own book anyway if I’m to consider his second term a success. Just stabilizing Iraq and cutting the deficit are going to be pretty big jobs IMO. -XT [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-constitute-a-successful-second-term/285760.md?page=2)