# What will happen to infidels on the rapture? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762 "2011-02-18T01:20:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/22 "2011-02-18T13:56:01Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > The bolding and underling in this quote is mine. > > The only issue I have is your claim that Rapture theology is not subscribed to by the major denominations. [Southern Baptists are the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention) > I think [16 million members](http://www.answers.com/topic/southern-baptist-convention-2) qualifies as a major denomination. They tenaciously subscribe to the idea of Rapture. > > [Here is a link](http://baptistperspective.brucegourley.com/2009/12/southern-baptist-heresy-rapture-and.html) discussing the roots of premillennial dispensationalism. As you alluded to this is rooted in the 19th Century teachings of John Nelson Darby. > > Is it without basis in the Bible? Yeah. > > Is it heretical, as the article linked claims? Probably. > > Is it accurate to say this is not subscribed to by the major denominations? I would say no, since the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S. considers it central to their “end times” theology. I said not by _most_. I didn’t say not by _any_. ETA, looks like I DID leave out “most.” I meant to say “Most.” Honest. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/23 "2011-02-18T14:03:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s in the verses before the quoted one (that’s the thing about such eisegesic tactics as what Rapture theology does. It selectively removes clear context): > > But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that fall asleep; that ye sorrow not, even as the rest, who have no hope. 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep. 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and **the dead in Christ shall rise first** ; 4:17then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words. > ( **1 Thess. 4:13-18** ) > > Note the words I bolded and the other references to those who have “fallen asleep” above that. “Fallen asleep” is a euphemism for dead. “fallen asleep in Jesus” means they died as Christians. Paul is saying that the living don’t have to worry about their loved ones who died as Christians - that they will rise first. Look, you may have to consider the meaning of verse 17 in the light of verses 15 and 16, but it’s not like the context appreciably changes the meaning: it still says what it says. Sure, Paul’s saying the dead rise first, and this may well be his main point. But he’s still saying _something_ about what happens to the living at the time of Jesus’ return. That ‘something’ seems to be that they will “be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.” I’m not sure how the context makes that go away. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/24 "2011-02-18T14:07:11Z")
**What will happen to infidels on the rapture?** We get all the good stuff the holy rollers leave behind. In fact, if you’re preparing for the Rapture it might be a good idea to pass out your valuables beforehand, so as not to be weighted down with material things. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/25 "2011-02-18T14:15:39Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Look, you may have to consider the meaning of verse 17 in the light of verses 15 and 16, but it’s not like the context appreciably changes the meaning: it still says what it says. > > Sure, Paul’s saying the dead rise first, and this may well be his main point. But he’s still saying _something_ about what happens to the living at the time of Jesus’ return. That ‘something’ seems to be that they will “be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.” I’m not sure how the context makes that go away. Yes, but that refers to the second coming. It’s got nothing to do with a “rapturing” of souls prior to a battle with the Antichrist, etc. The “left behind” in that passage are merely the living who go up _immediately after_ the dead. He’s referring to the end of the world. Not good people going up and bad people staying behind. Bad people just get killed in Paul’s scenario. There isn’t any “Beast” or “tribulation” in it. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/26 "2011-02-18T16:58:30Z")
Whoaaa, something’s off here. “The dead Christians will rise first”. You mean they haven’t gone up already? They are just there moldering in the ground? Where are the “souls”? Hovering around somewhere - in limbo - in a waiting room with a really large “serving next” number? For the last 2100 years for some of the early adopters? You need a second coming to kick things in high gear? And where does Bruce Campbell come into all this armageddon/rapture thingy? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/27 "2011-02-18T17:09:09Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Whoaaa, something’s off here. “The dead Christians will rise first”. You mean they haven’t gone up already? They are just there moldering in the ground? Where are the “souls”? Hovering around somewhere - in limbo - in a waiting room with a really large “serving next” number? For the last 2100 years for some of the early adopters? Pretty much. They were “sleeping,” waiting for for bodily resurrection on judgement day. The body/soul separation wasn’t really part of the theology yet (though Paul said dead physical bodies would be transformed into spiritual ones). The whole “eternal life” thing was essentially a literal one. > [@](#): > > You need a second coming to kick things in high gear? It was already Jewish tradition that there would be a resurrection of the dead on judgement day. You can’t have the resurrection before judgement day. Something else that should be understood is tthat these early Christians (including Paul himself) thought Jesus’ return was imminent - that it would happen within their own lifetimes. Heaven wasn’t something to strive for after death to them. They thought it was going to happen any day, and they were worried that their recently deceased loved one would miss it. > [@](#): > > And where does Bruce Campbell come into all this armageddon/rapture thingy? The answer to this is obvious if you give it some real thought. Bruce Campbell IS God ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/28 "2011-02-18T17:57:31Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Whoaaa, something’s off here. “The dead Christians will rise first”. You mean they haven’t gone up already? They are just there moldering in the ground? Yep. This is why they have to “rise up” on judgement day. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/29 "2011-02-18T18:21:29Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > Lets assume that the Rapture will happen. What will happen to atheists and believers of the wrong faith? > > What does the bible and the different interpretations say? Well, you get in your car and you drive real far, and you drive all night and then you see a light, and it comes right down and lands on the ground, and out comes a man from Mars, and you try to run but he’s got a gun, and he shoots you dead and he eats your head. And then you’re in the man from Mars. You go out at night, eatin’ cars. You eat Cadillacs, Lincolns too, Mercuries and Subarus. There are some historic differences of Scriptural interpretation with regard to the Subarus. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/30 "2011-02-18T19:24:58Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Whoaaa, something’s off here. “The dead Christians will rise first”. You mean they haven’t gone up already? They are just there moldering in the ground? Where are the “souls”? Hovering around somewhere - in limbo - in a waiting room with a really large “serving next” number? For the last 2100 years for some of the early adopters? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Pretty much. They were “sleeping,” waiting for for bodily resurrection on judgement day. The body/soul separation wasn’t really part of the theology yet (though Paul said dead physical bodies would be transformed into spiritual ones). The whole “eternal life” thing was essentially a literal one. This is not a dead theological idea, either. Christians debate as to whether upon dying the soul goes immediately to heaven, or goes nowhere until the Second Coming/Final Judgment (although it’s generally agreed that it is “instant” from the perspective of the deceased). And the actual traditional Chrisitan doctrine is that in the afterlife people will have actual physical bodies, as Jesus did after the resurrection. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/31 "2011-02-18T21:44:14Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > This is not a dead theological idea, either. Christians debate as to whether upon dying the soul goes immediately to heaven, or goes nowhere until the Second Coming/Final Judgment. What sects other than Catholics champion the former? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/32 "2011-02-18T22:00:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, we don’t get to keep their stuff? Well, shit. If you keep your anti-rapture helmet handy, you can stay. I’m making sure I have some extra pairs of glasses myself. Lots of books to catch up on. Oh, and a chain saw. If the dead are rising first, they may stop off on earth for some brainnnnnnnsssssss ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/33 "2011-02-18T23:47:36Z")
Dangit if **elucidator** didn’t try to get in first and hog all the rapturists’ ex-possessions. I’ll have to settle for cash. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/34 "2011-02-19T00:16:57Z")
They go to Heaven. The sanctimonious and the hypocritical get left behind. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/35 "2011-02-19T13:58:50Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > What sects other than Catholics champion the former? Eastern Orthodoxy & most Protestant churches- Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Congregational, Baptist, Pentecostal, etc. The most well-known ones that champion the latter are Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses & the Armstrong-based Churches of God. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/36 "2011-02-20T23:11:34Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > The bolding and underling in this quote is mine. > > The only issue I have is your claim that Rapture theology is not subscribed to by the major denominations. [Southern Baptists are the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention) > I think [16 million members](http://www.answers.com/topic/southern-baptist-convention-2) qualifies as a major denomination. They tenaciously subscribe to the idea of Rapture. > > [Here is a link](http://baptistperspective.brucegourley.com/2009/12/southern-baptist-heresy-rapture-and.html) discussing the roots of premillennial dispensationalism. As you alluded to this is rooted in the 19th Century teachings of John Nelson Darby. > > Is it without basis in the Bible? Yeah. > > Is it heretical, as the article linked claims? Probably. > > Is it accurate to say this is not subscribed to by the major denominations? I would say no, since the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S. considers it central to their “end times” theology. 16million is a blip on the radar in the scheme of the world. Southern Baptists are uniquely USA invention and are at the root of most lunatic ideas that are attributed to Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Wandering\_Hero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@Wandering\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wandering_Hero)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/37 "2011-02-21T00:46:25Z")
God will smack people who added nonse like the rapture and helped derail Christianity ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/38 "2011-02-21T00:56:14Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > Lets assume that the Rapture will happen. What will happen to atheists and believers of the wrong faith? > > What does the bible and the different interpretations say? The atheists and believers of the wrong faith will burn in hell for eternity. That’s what the Bible is saying. As far as religions are concerned, this is a severely anti-social and dysfunctional way of treating other people. All three Abrahamic religions have a similar vein of violent anti-social factor in their belief system. Kind of like, animals. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/39 "2011-02-21T04:52:30Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > well, the rapture might come pretty soon, > > How can I prepare, what will happen to me?? Don’t worry about it; it already happened. Last week, in fact. And I was one of them. 🆒 Here’s how it went down: there were 144,000 of us, like it said in what turns out to be the only _correctly_ translated version of Revelations. And we were from all times and places in the entire continuum of intelligent life. I’m not absolutely certain of the distribution, but I’d say that no more than one percent of us were from Planet Earth. And of us, I saw only one pair of humans who were apparently from close enough to each other geographically and chronologically to even successfully communicate with one another. It was a big clusterfuck is what it was. NOBODY was having a good time. We just stood around waiting for our intake interviews. When they got to me, I just asked politely if I could be sent back. They were pretty nice about saying “yes.” To tell you the truth, I had the impression that OG really hadn’t thought the whole thing through, and was only too happy to comply with my request. My pajamas were cold by the time I was returned to them, though. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/40 "2011-02-22T21:51:30Z")
There is no Rapture. It has no basis in the Bible and is a recent invention. Likewise, anyone who claims to know the time and/or date of the Second Coming is a liar. The Bible says he will come like a thief in the night … with no warning. No one knows when, because that is how he intends it to be. As a thief in the night - Suddenly and unexpectedly, as a robber breaks into a dwelling. A thief comes without giving any warning, or any indications of his approach. He not only gives none, but he is careful that none shall be given. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762/41 "2011-02-22T22:14:46Z")
The rapture already happened. It was back in 1975. Turns out Jimmy Hoffa was the only one who made the cut. Go figure. The rest of us have all been left behind to suffer the rule of the Anti-Christ, who we know as Zach Braff. What can I say? God’s ways surpasses the understanding of man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-infidels-on-the-rapture/571762.md?page=3)