# What will happen to Mr. Moore... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 1, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-mr-moore/253112 "2004-07-01T21:06:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-mr-moore/253112/41 "2004-07-03T10:57:00Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I find it a bit hypocritical for conservatives to bash Michael Moore for getting rich and living the good life. Isn’t that the American dream in a nutshell, to innovate yourself into fame and fortune and enjoy the fruits of your success? > > At least the guy isn’t buying air-conditioned doghouses for his pets… I’m not a conservative, but for me, that isn’t the issue. I admire people who are materially successful so long as they don’t try to pretend they’re something else. I would prefer that Moore take pride in his accomplishments, and say something like, “Hell yeah, I’m wealthy, and I deserve it. I worked hard for it.” Instead, he says that it’s all about the art, like he’s some sort of beatnik or starving poet. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-mr-moore/253112/42 "2004-07-03T12:14:27Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I’m in the first world, and I didn’t know. You honestly didn’t know that The Gap doesn’t build its stores in slums and low-rent districts? You were unaware that The Gap is a world famous name brand, and that their clothes aren’t exactly cheap? You didn’t realize that anyone claiming to live in the same building as a Gap store is essentially admitting to living in a pretty nice neighborhood? > [@](#): > > - > > In fact, I’d wager that relatively few are familiar with the geography of Park Avenue, much less its snooty hierarchy. Moore is using the information in an attempt to pooh-pooh the Newsweek charge that he lives in a penthouse: “Newsweek wrote that I live in a penthouse on Central Park West (I live above a Baby Gap store, and not on any park)…”. He in fact lives in a $1.7 million dollar ritzy Manhattan apartment just two blocks from Central Park. \*Gosh, you sound a lot more familiar with the geography of New York City than I am. I’ve heard of Central Park West of course, but I have no idea what the neighborhoods two blocks away are like. > [@](#): > > - > > He repeatedly tells journalists, including 60 minutes last week, that he is just a working class average Joe. If he wanted to be true to that image, he could live in a New Jersey flat. \*If he genuinely comes from a working class background, why should he have to put effort into maintaining an “image”? Wouldn’t it be dishonest of him to live in an apartment much worse than what he could afford just to project a blue collar image? Either he comes from a working class background or he doesn’t. If you’ve got some evidence that Moore was actually born with a silver spoon in his mouth then that’s one thing, but the fact that he’s made a lot of money from his movies doesn’t change his upbringing. > [@](#): > > \*I’m not a conservative, but for me, that isn’t the issue. I admire people who are materially successful so long as they don’t try to pretend they’re something else. I would prefer that Moore take pride in his accomplishments, and say something like, “Hell yeah, I’m wealthy, and I deserve it. I worked hard for it.” \*In [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5000571&postcount=258) I already provided you with a [link](http://www.theonionavclub.com/feature/index.php?issue=3638&f=1) (which admittedly seems to work sporadically) to and quote from an interview where Moore does essentially that. In fact, he criticizes the Flint newspapers for _not_ mentioning that he’s done well for himself financially. I have yet to see you come up with any actual quotes where he claims otherwise. One of his biggest web critics, [David Hardy](http://www.hardylaw.net/replytomoore.html), has even cited the same interview as an example of Moore _boasting_ about his apartment. As best as I can determine Moore doesn’t claim to be poor or live poorly, he only corrects exaggerations that make him sound far wealthier than he really is. The only evidence you’ve provided to the contrary are your own mis-paraphrases of Moore’s actual words. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-mr-moore/253112/43 "2004-07-03T12:36:40Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > You honestly didn’t know that The Gap doesn’t build its stores in slums and low-rent districts? You were unaware that The Gap is a world famous name brand, and that their clothes aren’t exactly cheap? You didn’t realize that anyone claiming to live in the same building as a Gap store is essentially admitting to living in a pretty nice neighborhood? Yeah. So what? We riff-raff have lives too, you know. Did you know that the Dollar Store has a bin for bartered goods? Did you realize that Big Lots double-bolts their restrooms? Were you unaware that a Poor Man’s Supper (pinto beans and cornbread) is an annual event at small Baptist churches? > [@](#): > > Gosh, you sound a lot more familiar with the geography of New York City than I am. I’ve heard of Central Park West of course, but I have no idea what the neighborhoods two blocks away are like. I looked it up. We poor people can read. We’re even house trained. > [@](#): > > If he genuinely comes from a working class background, why should he have to put effort into maintaining an “image”? Wouldn’t it be dishonest of him to live in an apartment much worse than what he could afford just to project a blue collar image? Either he comes from a working class background or he doesn’t. If you’ve got some evidence that Moore was actually born with a silver spoon in his mouth then that’s one thing, but the fact that he’s made a lot of money from his movies doesn’t change his upbringing. Apparently, he doesn’t know what the meaning of “is” is. The honest statement to make is “I used to be a working class average Joe.” > [@](#): > > In this post I already provided you with a link (which admittedly seems to work sporadically) to and quote from an interview where Moore does essentially that. In fact, he criticizes the Flint newspapers for not mentioning that he’s done well for himself financially. I have yet to see you come up with any actual quotes where he claims otherwise. One of his biggest web critics, David Hardy, has even cited the same interview as an example of Moore boasting about his apartment. As best as I can determine Moore doesn’t claim to be poor or live poorly, he only corrects exaggerations that make him sound far wealthier than he really is. The only evidence you’ve provided to the contrary are your own mis-paraphrases of Moore’s actual words. You give me a link to The Onion for a fact check? Are you testing to see whether I really am first world? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-mr-moore/253112/44 "2004-07-03T12:47:32Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Yeah. So what? So that’s something you should have looked into before accusing Moore of claiming to be poor when he said he lived over a Baby Gap. He was doing anything but. > [@](#): > > \*Did you know that the Dollar Store has a bin for bartered goods? Did you realize that Big Lots double-bolts their restrooms? Were you unaware that a Poor Man’s Supper (pinto beans and cornbread) is an annual event at small Baptist churches? \*Uh, yes…yes…and yes. Not very good at guessing other people’s socioeconomic backgrounds, are you? Believe it or not, you don’t have to live high on the hog to have _walked past The Gap_. They let anyone do that. > [@](#): > > - > > You give me a link to The Onion for a fact check? Are you testing to see whether I really am first world? \*Ah, so among the many things you don’t know we can count the fact that The Onion has an excellent non-fiction (although still often funny) entertainment section that has featured interviews with many celebrities. But I guess you were too busy making up lies about Michael Moore to bother clicking on a link I’ve given you twice to see if it looked like a legitimate interview or a satire piece. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-mr-moore/253112/45 "2004-07-03T12:49:28Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Uh, yes…yes…and yes. Make that “yes…yes…and _no_.” I missed the change of question form until the second _after_ I hit “Submit”. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-mr-moore/253112/46 "2004-07-03T16:12:42Z")
What lie have I made up about Moore? It is remarkable that you will defend the very father of lies by attacking his detractors as liars. And you might like to know that the Dollar Store does not have a bin for bartered items, and Big Lots does not double-bolt their restrooms, at least as far as I know. But now I know that you will defend Moore at all costs and by any means possible. Baptist churches do, however, have Poor Man suppers. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-mr-moore/253112/47 "2004-07-03T16:47:14Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What lie have I made up about Moore? It is remarkable that you will defend the very father of lies by attacking his detractors as liars. Wow, I didn’t realize Michael Moore was actually the Devil. Now I see why he gets you so upset! What I previosly found remarkable is that you attack him as a liar with…uh…less-than-honest claims, but that’s taken a backseat to learning that you believe him to be Satan. > [@](#): > > - > > And you might like to know that the Dollar Store does not have a bin for bartered items, and Big Lots does not double-bolt their restrooms, at least as far as I know. \*I suspected as much. I’ve never noticed “barter bins” at any discount shop I’ve ever been in, although I have seen “take one free” plenty of places. I don’t think I’ve ever used the restroom at a Big Lots, either. But if I’d said that a post ago you I’ll bet you wouldn’t be admitting to making it all up now, would you, Mr. Honesty? > [@](#): > > - > > But now I know that you will defend Moore at all costs and by any means possible. \*And now I know that you will resort to anything to distract others from the fact that you have _nothing_ to support your repeated claims that Moore dishonestly pretends to have less money than he does. Rather than come up with a single quote you’d rather turn this into how much money _I_ have (not much) or whether _I’m_ sometimes willing to engage in petty dishonesty (definitely so – it’s the only way I can get out of barcrawling with my coworkers). But I could by the richest lying bitch in the world and it still wouldn’t make you right. And it wouldn’t make you worth any more of my time, either. As much as I’ve disagreed with you in the past, I previously had a fairly good opinion of your basic character. Your recent behavior in, well, pretty much _all_ the Moore related threads has made me reconsider this. I’m not the first to write you off, and if you keep this up I’m sure I won’t be the last. > [@](#): > > - > > Baptist churches do, however, have Poor Man suppers. \*I _was_ reasonably sure of that one, although I don’t have a lot of contact with the Baptist members of the extended family. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-mr-moore/253112/48 "2004-07-03T22:53:23Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I suspected as much. I’ve never noticed “barter bins” at any discount shop I’ve ever been in, although I have seen “take one free” plenty of places. I don’t think I’ve ever used the restroom at a Big Lots, either. But if I’d said that a post ago you I’ll bet you wouldn’t be admitting to making it all up now, would you, Mr. Honesty? I was honest, according to you. I did what Moore does. I made no statements of any kind. I merely asked leading questions. I didn’t declare anything about bins or restrooms. Isn’t that what you and other Moore defenders have been saying? That his leading questions and misleading juxtapositions of fact are not lies? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-mr-moore/253112/49 "2004-07-04T01:17:24Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I was honest, according to you. Nope. “According to me” it isn’t honest to say something that is a lie according to your own belief system, even if you think that other people might hold other standards of truth. If you were lying _by your own standards_, then you’re a liar. That’s the behavior you’ve been exhibiting in all these recent Moore threads – saying things about him that are just as dishonest as what you’ve accused him of. > [@](#): > > \*I did what Moore does. I made no statements of any kind. I merely asked leading questions. I didn’t declare anything about bins or restrooms. Isn’t that what you and other Moore defenders have been saying? That his leading questions and misleading juxtapositions of fact are not lies? \*Nope again. But I’m too tired to bother explaining yet again, and it wouldn’t do any good anyway. I’ve had enough of you, you sad, strange little man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-happen-to-mr-moore/253112.md?page=2)