# What will it take for gays to gain acceptance in American society? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2002, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087 "2002-09-05T04:32:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![\_Uigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e9a140/32.png) [@\_Uigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Uigi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/101 "2002-09-08T22:45:33Z")
Well, either death, or marriage to a member of the opposite sex and a happy life come to mind, but I guess neither of these are the answer you’re lookin’ for. GOOD LUCK. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/102 "2002-09-08T23:27:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\* > > So you would advocate closing all singles bars? Not a bad idea, but to me a bit extreme in taking away people’s rights to gather. > > And yeah, I know you were speaking of gays and pride parades, but it’s been my test of an argument that it works if you turn it around – and “freakishly dressed overtly sexual people dancing around” is a once-a-year occurrence for gay people here and a nearly-nightly occurrence for straight people, at least around Jillian’s and The Warehouse. 🙂 \*\* If you could point me to some of those overtly sexual women, I would be most obliged… ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/103 "2002-09-08T23:28:34Z")
You know **'Uigi** , I was gonna flame you… then I realized that _being_ you, knowing that when you wake up tomorrow you will be just as pathetic as you are today, that you are too chicken-shit to gay bash in real life because the nelliest queer ever could kick your pathetic ass, that is a far worse fate than I would wish on anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2002, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/104 "2002-09-08T23:59:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\* > > If you could point me to some of those overtly sexual women, I would be most obliged… \*\* Easy… Just buy a Girls Gone Wild tape! (Or, if you like, just go anywhere where the people are young and the alcohol flows freely…) ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/105 "2002-09-09T00:22:25Z")
**’Uigi** , I changed my mind and _did_ [flame you](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=134582). Your continued existence here is a disgrace. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/106 "2002-09-09T00:26:41Z")
Uh, when did this thread move to the Pit? ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/107 "2002-09-09T02:01:41Z")
[Moderator Hat: ON] grendel72 said: > [@](#): > > …you are too chicken-shit… That is a direct insult and forbidden in Great Debates. As KellyM has noted, this isn’t the Pit. We expect you to remember that in the future. * * * David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator [Moderator Hat: OFF] ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/108 "2002-09-09T02:11:06Z")
Ban me, then. If **'Uigi** s post is considered acceptable while mine isn’t, I don’t think I wish to remain here any longer. I did start a pit thread, and I realise my comments should have stayed in that thread, but I am getting sick of the truly vile statements of certain posters being ignored just because they don’t use profanity. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/109 "2002-09-09T04:26:52Z")
\*\* grendel72 \*\*: [Moderator Hat ON] It’s not a matter of profanity, it’s a matter of personal insults. A poster may say gay people have the options of death or marriage to a member of the opposite sex, just as a poster may say Christians have the options of death or converting to some other religion. Because here we debate things without personal insults, even beliefs that group A is doomed to unhappiness unless they change their wicked ways. And I’m not going to ban you for one offense, so stop throwing yourself on your frickin’ sword already. If you show that you are unwilling to follow the rules on a consistent basis, as opposed to a single late-night martyr urge, I will ban you. And anyone else who thinks the rules don’t apply to them because they get really pissed off. You want to insult someone, we provide you a forum for it, so I don’t see why you need to do it in this one. “But _he_ did it first!” didn’t work with your mom, and it doesn’t work with me. And if you want to bitch about our decisions, you can do _that_ in the Pit too. This goes for the rest of you, too. “Grow a brain” and “you should be composted” and “go consume large amounts of dishwasher fluids” is not appropriate outside the Pit. Yes, people are going to beleive and say things that are offensive and piss you off. That does not mean you can post insults in GD. Kirkland, since two of the above insults were from you and I gave you a final warning about insults in GD just over a week ago, I am banning you. You may petition for reinstatement from the admins if you so desire. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/110 "2002-09-09T06:02:01Z")
I appologise to the mods and the readers of Great Debates for posting in the wrong forum. I realised my mistake immediately, that is why I had already started a Pit thread and linked it here. I _do_ still fail to see how **'Uigi** s post was acceptable, but that isn’t my call to make. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/111 "2002-09-09T07:04:14Z")
Frankly, I can understand why some people might think gay pride parades are a bad thing for gay acceptance generally. But I also think they could well be a GOOD thing for the acceptance of more public sexuality in general, which I am also all for, which means that gay activists parading their sexuality around, making it hard to avoid talking and thinking about it, is a real benefit to me, even though I’m not gay, and even though it may or may nto hurt gay acceptance. I’m no friend of taboos, and I certainly think a society in which people can talk frankly and openly about something that’s just as much a part of their lives as anything else, is a good thing. A beefy hairy guy in a pleather suit doesn’t do a lot for me sexually, but IMHO it’s a counter-productive and pointless thing to be somehow against knowing about it or seeing it. There’s no accounting for taste, but at the very least, if you care about maximizing your enjoyment of life, it makes sense to do everything you can to rid yourself of _distastes_ if you can… ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/112 "2002-09-09T07:44:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\*To answer the OP: Take it. Be gay, go armed, and fear no gay-bashers. > (Enjoys a fantasy involving gobear, an AK, and gay bashers armed with baseball bats a la Snow Crash, but more painful) > Seriously, come out, stay out, and make people get past the eew factor. The cool thing about this board is that it’s incredibly easy to disprove the lame-ass theory that all homos are perverts: just point them over to the happy 7. But, if people believe this and vocalize it, and people stay closeted in response in response, then the other people have no counterexample. > I genuinely believed that all Christians were either hypocrites, delusional, or nuts, until this board. Then I met Polycarp. Now, I have as much fun ripping into the ‘religion is a disease’ crowd as I did ripping into the religious when I was one of them. \*\* Correct me if I’m wrong, but you can disagree with the concept of homosexuality and not be labled a homophobe. A person does not have to like it, or agree with it. However, this doesn’t mean that you can infringe on the rights of a person that is homosexual. I think people have a right to speak to and avoid behavior of people that they find objectionable to them, whether or not the person was born or predisposed to engage in that behavior or not. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/113 "2002-09-09T11:24:16Z")
Well, call me a homophobaphobe, but every ‘argument’ I’ve seen against homosexuality comes from “It’s icky,” “God says it’s icky,” or “The time cube says it’s icky.”. And if people wish to stay in their homes and watch only the 700 club, they are welcome to. But, the right to avoid ‘icky’ people does **not** translate into a right to deny said icky people any rights in any public fora. Agreed? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/114 "2002-09-09T13:32:00Z")
just ignoring it i guess. Not making a person’s sexual preference their master trait (aka, the main thing you focus on). When you look at anti-semitism, there really isn’t any in america. Jewish people are pretty much indistinguishable from non-jews. Our society was extremely anti-semetic in 1920 or so, but now it isn’t. While women & blacks still put up with troubles, jews seem pretty safe from double standards & harassment in america. I have gay friends, and when i talk to them i don’t really agknowledge the fact that they are gay, i am more interested in what they have to say, if they are assholes, if they are interesting, etc. Focus on something other than the fact that they are gay. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/115 "2002-09-09T13:45:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\*(Enjoys a fantasy involving gobear, an AK, and gay bashers armed with baseball bats a la Snow Crash, but more painful) \*\* And here I thought I was the only one with a Rambo-esque gobear fantasy. I’ll bet my aftercare was more interesting than yours, though. 😉 **Brutus** : I have two words in response to your gay pride parade complaints. _Mardi Gras_. Makes gay pride parades look like St. Patrick’s Day Cub Scout contingents. Personally, I agree with the person who said that we need to loosen up a bit with the sexual taboo. Gay pride parades are mild, to tell the truth. And I’m more than half-convinced that prejudice against homosexuals comes as much from a deep-seated discomfort with sex in general as it does from discomfort with homosexuality specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/116 "2002-09-09T14:55:54Z")
If you believe there is no anti-semitism in the US today you haven’t looked very hard. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/117 "2002-09-09T15:29:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Telemark \* > \*\*If you believe there is no anti-semitism in the US today you haven’t looked very hard. \*\* If i haven’t then show me. Aside from black extremists & klansmen i really don’t see any anti-semitism (anti-semitism meaning acts or ideals that make life harder for jews than for non jews.). And their opinions don’t really affect people’s day to day lives. I see no evidence that jews have a harder life or more psychological stress than non-jews, so i say anti-semitism is pretty much gone in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/118 "2002-09-09T15:37:41Z")
gay people have to worry about self esteem & shame. Women have to worry about being paid less for the same work. I don’t see any experiences that jewish people must go through that make their lives harder than non-jewish people in modern america. However, i don’t see evidence (and yes, i haven’t looked. i admit that) that jewish people are under more psychological stress than non jewish people. There are millions of gays who try to convert to heterosexuality due to stress & humiliation, i don’t see jewish people doing the same thing (although they did hundreds of years ago) due to the shame & humiliation they face. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/119 "2002-09-09T16:38:29Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Brutus** _ > > Straight people do not generally (ever, that I know of) hold ‘straight pride’ events. Mardi Gras. The Mummers Parade. “Girls Gone Wild.” > [@](#): > > Seeing thousands of freakishly dressed overtly sexual people dancing around does not exactly foster a sense of acceptance among most straight folk. Have you ever actually _been_ to a gay pride parade? My thinking here is most assuredly no, unless you closed your eyes during 90% of it and only opened it for the minority of floats (proud of them as we are). Last time I checked the U.S. was all for freedom of expression. What a pity everyone wants everyone else to be just like them. What a sad little place their world must be. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087/120 "2002-09-09T17:21:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\* > > Mardi Gras. The Mummers Parade. “Girls Gone Wild.” > > Esprix \*\* NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, TNT, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-it-take-for-gays-to-gain-acceptance-in-american-society/127087.md?page=7)