# What will the Republican Party be like post-Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574 "2019-05-06T17:31:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/81 "2019-05-13T12:44:07Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > No they aren’t. … Yes, they are. > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > … You support Republican disenfranchisement efforts if it means you get your way. … I support some basic election security measures. I, [like the vast majority of Americans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/194741/four-five-americans-support-voter-laws-early-voting.aspx), don’t believe asking for an ID amounts to disenfranchisement. > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > … Weird that a while back you declared yourself to be a patriot. You’ve said this twice now, and I have no idea what you’re talking about or why you interjected it here (again). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/82 "2019-05-13T12:53:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, they are. Wrong. And this is really the snappiest debate response since “No YOU’RE the puppet!” Good work, man. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/83 "2019-05-13T13:17:41Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Wrong. > > And this is really the snappiest debate response since “No YOU’RE the puppet!” Good work, man. Over in another thread, you posted this not very long ago: > [@Blue states propose measures to keep Trump off of 2020 ballots (unless he releases tax returns)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/180): > > Except that the proposed laws are being examined for the precise purpose of keeping the current President off of the ballot. … Do you realize that that’s the same point I have been making here, the one you just called “wrong”? ETA: and it’s worth mentioning that “wrong” is right up there with “yes, they are” and “no, they aren’t” in quality of responses. Welcome to the club, pal. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/84 "2019-05-13T13:31:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Over in another thread, you posted this not very long ago: > Do you realize that that’s the same point I have been making here, the one you just called “wrong”? That isn’t voter disenfranchisement. You’re clearly adopting Trump’s tactic of making words mean nothing, just like how “fake news” used to be lies spread by Russian bots, and now Republicans use it to refer to unfavorable but truthful news coverage. Nobody here is going to buy your attempts to misdirect this debate through sloppy use of the English language. > [@](#): > > ETA: and it’s worth mentioning that “wrong” is right up there with “yes, they are” and “no, they aren’t” in quality of responses. Welcome to the club, pal. Also, nobody is falling for your “you have to provide cites to prove I’m wrong” schtick. We see though your little games: you post something and refuse to back it up, either out of laziness or trying to make the other side do more work to rebut your nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/85 "2019-05-13T13:35:06Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > That isn’t voter disenfranchisement. You’re clearly adopting Trump’s tactic of making words mean nothing, just like how “fake news” used to be lies spread by Russian bots, and now Republicans use it to refer to unfavorable but truthful news coverage. > > Nobody here is going to buy your attempts to misdirect this debate through sloppy use of the English language. > > Also, nobody is falling for your “you have to provide cites to prove I’m wrong” schtick. We see though your little games: you post something and refuse to back it up, either out of laziness or trying to make the other side do more work to rebut your nonsense. Trying to kick one of the major party’s candidates off the ballot isn’t disenfranchisement? ‘you can vote for anyone you want as president, as long as it’s a Democrat’. Your argument here is absurd. Of course that would disenfranchise Republicans voters. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/86 "2019-05-13T13:42:34Z")
Holy shit I _swear_ this thread was about something before it became the **HurricaneDitka** show. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/87 "2019-05-13T13:50:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your argument here is absurd. Of course that would disenfranchise Republicans voters. Last year, a Virginia congressional candidate was removed from the ballot due to fraud in gathering signatures. You are with a straight face asserting that Virginia voters were disenfranched because of this? In the same way that Republican governors in certain states have made an effort to keep minority voters from ever entering polling places? Based on this exchange, I’m beginning to change my mind on the topic of the OP: Republicans might not change that much after Trump is gone. They will still equate nonsensical things with the racism espoused by certain portions of their party leadership in order to make themselves out as the real victims. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/88 "2019-05-13T13:55:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Last year, a Virginia congressional candidate was removed from the ballot due to fraud in gathering signatures. You are with a straight face asserting that Virginia voters were disenfranched because of this? > > In the same way that Republican governors in certain states have made an effort to keep minority voters from ever entering polling places? > > Based on this exchange, I’m beginning to change my mind on the topic of the OP: Republicans might not change that much after Trump is gone. They will still equate nonsensical things with the racism espoused by certain portions of their party leadership in order to make themselves out as the real victims. The critical difference there is obviously the “due to fraud” part. I’m fairly confident you already knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/89 "2019-05-13T13:57:14Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So it’s basically trivial at this point to point out that the republican party is completely divorced from reality. Everyone knows, no real need to go back over it. And it largely comes down to the right-wing media sphere encouraging that divorce with constant lies, smear campaigns, et cetera. > > Have those dynamics become better or worse in the past 2 years? > > Yeah, that’s what I thought. > > There’s no moderating influence on the republican side. There’s no voice (at least, not with any influence) saying, “Hey, wait, this isn’t okay”. Rank and file republicans have about a 90% agreement rate with Donald Trump - given how he’s been so far, how bad do you think things have to get for that to drop significantly? And if things do get worse, why wouldn’t the right-wing filter bubble immediately blame it on the democrats? > > [Despite what Joe Biden might say, Trump is not some anomaly](https://theintercept.com/2019/05/06/joe-biden-trump-republicans/). He’s the culmination of modern right-wing grift. The party is well and truly run by the folks on the far right. Even so-called “moderate” republicans have to either step in line with Hannity, Limbaugh, and co, or lose power and influence. There’s nobody willing and able to check those influences. Hell, the president recently stood up for an Infowars editor and a bunch of white nationalists on twitter - where’s the pushback from republicans who are, if not moderate, then at least fucking _sane_? There is none, because the media landscape ensures that if they stand up to the far right, they will get pummeled. > > The only thing that will set this right, short of Breitbart and co. ceasing to exist, is if the republicans take such an impossible beating in the next election that it causes the heads at Fox News to say, “whoa, time to tune things down a bit and rein in our worst excesses”. Except that they have a far better line to take should that happen, a line they’ve been pushing for god knows how long: “Voter Fraud”. Hell, now we have Nancy Pelosi talking about how she’s concerned that Trump will contest the election results if he loses. And why wouldn’t the right-wing media go right along with it, just like they’ve gone right along with every other insane, dangerous, stupid thing he’s said in the last 3 years? > > This doesn’t get better without getting a whole lot worse. Unless the republican party is completely crushed, unless the political landscape shifts so dramatically that “I read Breitbart” becomes widely recognized as akin to “I read the Daily Stormer”, there’s no incentive to stop. We are sleepwalking towards a fascist dictatorship. > > Like, imagine if Trump loses in 2020, and senate republicans, for whatever reason, refuse to go along with him disputing the election results (given Mitch McConnell’s consistent norm-breaking behavior over the past decade and his caucus’s willingness to go along with it, I find this unlikely). What happens in 2024? Is there any reason to believe the far right will tone it down? That we’ll see less insane conspiracy theories attacking the legitimacy of our institutions? That they’ll be less willing to blatantly lie about anything and everything? These conditions that led to Trump have no real reason to improve, so they won’t. > > But here’s the scary part. Trump is currently a drag on his party. But that largely comes down to him being grossly incompetent, stupid, self-destructive, obviously corrupt, et cetera et cetera et cetera. What if, in 2024, the person who runs shares Trump’s authoritarian tendencies, but, just to name one obvious example, isn’t so stupidly self-destructive that he’d fire the head of the FBI that’s currently investigating him for ties to Russia, then admit on national television that he fired the head of the FBI because of his handling of an investigation into him. Imagine if, instead of a scandal-prone man who cheated on his pregnant wife with a porn star then paid said porn star to keep quiet, we had just… someone who wasn’t that. > > We’re fucked. Like, just to name the obvious example… Tucker Carlson. Tucker is young, at least somewhat charismatic, and while (as one might expect given his position as a right-wing shock jock) has absolutely [said some pretty fucking heinous things](https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Fox-News-Commentator-Tucker-Carlson-Calls-Iraqis-Primitive-Monkeys-in-Unearthed-Recordings-20190312-0014.html), there’s nowhere near the stain that Trump has. But he is pushing the same white identity politics as Trump. He’s exceedingly popular among Trump’s base. He’s got the same sort of pseudo-support for the working class that Trump likes to milk. If you’re a Trump fan, there’s a lot to like there. And if you’re a Trump fan, you’re statistically 9/10 republicans, so you know that he stands a good chance in the primary. After Trump, why would the GOP back away from identity politics and outright graft? It worked so well for them! Even if Trump ends up losing, that’s not because his politics were super unpopular (I mean, they are, but people don’t seem to care about that), it’s because he was personally the most dishonest, scandal-ridden president ever. And Tucker Carlson is like Trump without half the bad baggage. He’ll be even closer to Fox News, which will probably work even better to coordinate their propaganda. And that’s the direction the right is being pulled - what could possibly prompt a return to the relative sanity of Bush and Cheney? (Wow, that’s a sentence that is physically painful to write. We’re so far-gone that the Bush administration now seems sane and rational by comparison. I need a drink.) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/90 "2019-05-13T13:58:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The critical difference there is obviously the “due to fraud” part. I’m fairly confident you already knew that. You’re asserting that “kept off the ballot” is equal to “voters losing the right to vote.” In other words, you have just another contentless, word-mincing argument. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/91 "2019-05-13T14:57:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > …Your argument here is absurd. Of course that would disenfranchise Republicans voters. So you’re asserting that Republicans are tax cheats. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/92 "2019-05-13T15:05:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You’re asserting that “kept off the ballot” is equal to “voters losing the right to vote.” > > In other words, you have just another contentless, word-mincing argument. I’m asserting that they’re related, and similar enough that I’m comfortable labeling both of them as “disenfranchisement”. It’s an old Communist gimmick to hold elections where only one party is allowed on the ballot. Most people are able to see that for what it is. Freedom House attempts to rank countries based on their freedom. One of the factors in [their methodology](https://freedomhouse.org/report/methodology-freedom-world-2019) is: > [@](#): > > Were voters able to vote for the candidate or party of their choice without undue pressure or intimidation? How do you think a blue state would score in that category if it effectively prevented Republican voters from voting for their preferred candidate for president? Now, if you want to mince words, and don’t think “disenfranchise” is a precise enough label for depriving voters of the realistic opportunity to vote for their preferred candidate, I’m open to hearing suggestions on what we ought to call this action instead. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/93 "2019-05-13T15:07:00Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > So you’re asserting that Republicans are tax cheats. That’s not even remotely close to what I’m asserting. Try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/94 "2019-05-13T15:08:01Z")
So now you’re saying Democrats are like Eastern Bloc communists. Nothing has changed with Republican character attacks in 70 years, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/95 "2019-05-13T15:09:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s not even remotely close to what I’m asserting. Try harder. Requiring tax information in know way prevents any specific party from getting on the ballot. You are saying that this requirement would specifically disenfranchise republicans. Why, if not for being tax cheats. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/96 "2019-05-13T15:14:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So now you’re saying Democrats are like Eastern Bloc communists. Nothing has changed with Republican character attacks in 70 years, I guess. They certainly appear to share a liking for this particular tactic. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/97 "2019-05-13T15:15:38Z")
You really are telling us that tax fraud is a Republican thing, aren’t you? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/98 "2019-05-13T15:16:13Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Requiring tax information in know way prevents any specific party from getting on the ballot. You are saying that this requirement would specifically disenfranchise republicans. Why, if not for being tax cheats. Do you recognize the possibility that someone might have other motives for not wanting to publicize their tax returns besides them containing evidence of cheating (which the IRS apparently missed)? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/99 "2019-05-13T15:17:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you recognize the possibility that someone might have other motives for not wanting to publicize their tax returns besides them containing evidence of cheating (which the IRS apparently missed)? Give us a few examples. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574/100 "2019-05-13T15:18:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you recognize the possibility that someone might have other motives for not wanting to publicize their tax returns besides them containing evidence of cheating (which the IRS apparently missed)? Sure. Why does this specifically concern republicans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-republican-party-be-like-post-trump/833574.md?page=6)