# What will the UK do wrt Brexit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799 "2019-02-18T22:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/881 "2019-04-04T10:58:38Z")
From this 2017 Parliamentary Report on the UK fishing industry [http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0256/CDP-2017-0256.pdf](http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2017-0256/CDP-2017-0256.pdf) (PDF) > [@](#): > > There were 4,000 businesses in the fishing industry in 2016. These > businesses employed 24,000 people and contributed £1.4 billion to the > UK economy in terms of Gross Value Added (GVA – a measure similar > to GDP). In 2016, the fishing and fish processing industries accounted > for **0.12% of the all UK economic output** so let’s not break out the champagne just yet. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/882 "2019-04-04T11:14:57Z")
Of course the fishermen are pro-Leave - they want to be free from the shackles of fishing quotas. The problem there is that those fishing quotas didn’t spring up out of sheer mean-spirited anti-UK-fisherman sentiment on the part of Brussels (hi, **Steophan 😛** ). They’re here to try and mitigate the exceedingly alarming tragedy of the commons going on in the oceans right now. And they’re not even really efficient at that. We’re \*already \*fishing down the foodchain, dredging more and more formerly “unpalatable” fish and driving those out to de facto extinction too. At the rate we’re currently going, there’ll be no more fish in the sea in 10, 20 years. Not one. Can you imagine an entirely empty sea ? But of course, that won’t \*actually \*happen. What will happen is that fishing will keep on being less and less profitable, and we’ll eat shittier and shittier fish, until the whole industry collapses on its own, worldwide, and millions of people will very suddenly have no jobs anymore. Hey, remember when the coal industry did that back in the early XXth century (albeit for different reasons) ? Thank god nothing bad happened then. Wait, I’m being told the industry’s collapse led to major social upheavals that eventually culminated in a world war. Cool. Cool. Cool cool cool cool cool cool. Nothing to worry about, then, carry on. ---
**Author:** ![yendis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed8c4c/32.png) [@yendis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yendis)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/883 "2019-04-04T11:33:03Z")
Teach a man to fish using modern industrial methods and he will overfish until the industry collapses. Teach him to fish responsibly using quotas and he will fish for the rest of his life while crying about said quotas destroying his livelihood. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/884 "2019-04-04T11:51:28Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Of course the fishermen are pro-Leave - they want to be free from the shackles of fishing quotas. The problem there is that those fishing quotas didn’t spring up out of sheer mean-spirited anti-UK-fisherman sentiment on the part of Brussels (hi, **Steophan 😛** ). They’re here to try and mitigate the exceedingly alarming tragedy of the commons going on in the oceans right now. And they’re not even really efficient at that. We’re \*already \*fishing down the foodchain, dredging more and more formerly “unpalatable” fish and driving those out to de facto extinction too. At the rate we’re currently going, there’ll be no more fish in the sea in 10, 20 years. Not one. Can you imagine an entirely empty sea ? > > But of course, that won’t \*actually \*happen. What will happen is that fishing will keep on being less and less profitable, and we’ll eat shittier and shittier fish, until the whole industry collapses on its own, worldwide, and millions of people will very suddenly have no jobs anymore. Hey, remember when the coal industry did that back in the early XXth century (albeit for different reasons) ? Thank god nothing bad happened then. Wait, I’m being told the industry’s collapse led to major social upheavals that eventually culminated in a world war. Cool. Cool. Cool cool cool cool cool cool. Nothing to worry about, then, carry on. You’re being hysterical. [This sort of thing never leads to violence](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45337091). ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/885 "2019-04-04T12:03:13Z")
In fact, Leave is _still_ busy lying, with the lies funded by dodgy companies with (presumably) the same dodgy billionaires behind them as the initial Leave campaign. [‘Grassroots’ Facebook Brexit ads secretly run by Lynton Crosby](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/03/grassroots-facebook-brexit-ads-secretly-run-by-staff-of-lynton-crosby-firm) > [@](#): > > The mysterious groups, which have names such as Mainstream Network and Britain’s Future, appear to be run independently by members of the public and give no hint that they are connected. But in reality they share an administrator who works for Crosby’s CTF Partners and have spent as much as £1m promoting sophisticated targeted adverts aimed at heaping pressure on individual MPs to vote for a hard Brexit. > > Repeated questions have been raised about who is backing at least a dozen high-spending groups that have flooded MPs’ inboxes with calls to reject Theresa May’s deal. Until now they were thought to be independent entities. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/886 "2019-04-04T12:04:21Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Of course the fishermen are pro-Leave - they want to be free from the shackles of fishing quotas. The problem there is that those fishing quotas didn’t spring up out of sheer mean-spirited anti-UK-fisherman sentiment on the part of Brussels (hi, **Steophan 😛** ). They’re here to try and mitigate the exceedingly alarming tragedy of the commons going on in the oceans right now. And they’re not even really efficient at that. We’re \*already \*fishing down the foodchain, dredging more and more formerly “unpalatable” fish and driving those out to de facto extinction too. At the rate we’re currently going, there’ll be no more fish in the sea in 10, 20 years. Not one. Can you imagine an entirely empty sea ? > > But of course, that won’t \*actually \*happen. What will happen is that fishing will keep on being less and less profitable, and we’ll eat shittier and shittier fish, until the whole industry collapses on its own, worldwide, and millions of people will very suddenly have no jobs anymore. Hey, remember when the coal industry did that back in the early XXth century (albeit for different reasons) ? Thank god nothing bad happened then. Wait, I’m being told the industry’s collapse led to major social upheavals that eventually culminated in a world war. Cool. Cool. Cool cool cool cool cool cool. Nothing to worry about, then, carry on. It’s less about quota management and more about a disproportionate amount of fish in UK fishing waters being caught by foreign boats: > [@](#): > > As a result, only 32% of fish caught in the UK EEZ [exclusive economic zone] today is caught by UK boats, with most of the remainder taken by vessels from other EU states, Norway and the Faroe Islands (who have also joined the CFP). Therefore, non-UK vessels catch the remaining 68%, about 700,000 tonnes, of fish a year in the UK EEZ. In return, the UK fleet lands about 92,000 tonnes a year from other EU countries’ waters. > **[Fish fights: Britain has a long history of trading away access to coastal waters](https://theconversation.com/fish-fights-britain-has-a-long-history-of-trading-away-access-to-coastal-waters-112988)** > > The advent of steam transformed the fishing industry after 500 years of trawling by sail. But overfishing and declining stocks put the British industry at loggerheads with that of other nations. There’s also a belief that local management would result, not in the elimination of quotas, but in tailored ones. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/887 "2019-04-04T12:10:25Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You’re being hysterical. [This sort of thing never leads to violence](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45337091). You do realise that’s an argument for local control and against the CFP? The French were in the right in that dispute. Local management was attempting to protect the scallop breeding beds, but were prevented by the CFP from prohibiting foreign vessels to fish there. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/888 "2019-04-04T12:15:02Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > It’s less about quota management and more about a disproportionate amount of fish in UK fishing waters being caught by foreign boats Yes. Because they have to share these waters with 27 other countries (well, probably fewer than that, as I expect the Belgian fishing industry lags behind - but you get my drift) in return for the rights to fish in other national seas. And still get to fish the lion’s share of theirs ! But hey, if UK fishermenn want their EEZ to really be \*\*E, \*\*good for them. They can’t fish anywhere else though. That’s only fair, right ? Hmmm ? I beg your pardon ? They want to restrict fishing in English waters AND be able to freely access other EU waters ? Much like Leavers want UK folks to be able to move and work anywhere in the EU unrestricted ; but also expect to reserve the right to bar entry or work to other EU citizens ? Cute. Fuck them right in the ear, but cute. As for the scallop war : yeah, I know. As I said, the quotas don’t even work right for their stated purpose. But that’s an “improve the fucking EU and harden the quotas already” argument, not really a “do away with it !” one. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/889 "2019-04-04T12:19:04Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > As for the scallop war : yeah, I know. As I said, the quotas don’t even work right for their stated purpose. But that’s an “improve the fucking EU and harden the quotas already” argument, not really a “do away with it !” one. IF only that British MEP who said he was going to sort out EU fisheries policies had bothered to actually turn up to more than one meeting in the entire three years he was on the relevant committee, we might have sorted it out. What was that guy’s name again? Nigel something, I think. Whatever happened to him? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/890 "2019-04-04T12:23:16Z")
Wait, Belgium actually has a coast, that joke doesn’t work. Curses ! Foiled by geography \*again \*! Make that “the Czech fishing industry” then. ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/891 "2019-04-04T12:46:39Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Wait, Belgium actually has a coast, that joke doesn’t work. Curses ! Foiled by geography \*again \*! Make that “the Czech fishing industry” then. The Czech Republic has 3 sea ports in Germany. 2 of them were granted under long lease via the Treaty of Versailles and the 3rd they purchased outright. They have transit rights from the ports to CZ so they’re technically not 100% land locked. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/892 "2019-04-04T13:42:24Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > From this 2017 Parliamentary Report on the UK fishing industry You might consider that previously having an exclusive fisheries zone of 200 miles and now not might have something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/893 "2019-04-04T14:20:41Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > You might consider that previously having an exclusive fisheries zone of 200 miles and now not might have something to do with it. You might want to consider why that is. > [@Kobal2](#): > > Of course the fishermen are pro-Leave - they want to be free from the shackles of fishing quotas. The problem there is that those fishing quotas didn’t spring up out of sheer mean-spirited anti-UK-fisherman sentiment on the part of Brussels (hi, **Steophan 😛** ). They’re here to try and mitigate the exceedingly alarming tragedy of the commons going on in the oceans right now. And they’re not even really efficient at that. We’re \*already \*fishing down the foodchain, dredging more and more formerly “unpalatable” fish and driving those out to de facto extinction too. At the rate we’re currently going, there’ll be no more fish in the sea in 10, 20 years. Not one. Can you imagine an entirely empty sea ? > > But of course, that won’t \*actually \*happen. What will happen is that fishing will keep on being less and less profitable, and we’ll eat shittier and shittier fish, until the whole industry collapses on its own, worldwide, and millions of people will very suddenly have no jobs anymore. Hey, remember when the coal industry did that back in the early XXth century (albeit for different reasons) ? Thank god nothing bad happened then. Wait, I’m being told the industry’s collapse led to major social upheavals that eventually culminated in a world war. Cool. Cool. Cool cool cool cool cool cool. Nothing to worry about, then, carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/894 "2019-04-04T14:25:03Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > But hey, if UK fishermenn want their EEZ to really be \*\*E, \*\*good for them. They can’t fish anywhere else though. That’s only fair, right ? Hmmm ? I beg your pardon ? They want to restrict fishing in English waters AND be able to freely access other EU waters ? Much like Leavers want UK folks to be able to move and work anywhere in the EU unrestricted ; but also expect to reserve the right to bar entry or work to other EU citizens ? Absolutely, any limitations the UK places on EU and other foreign fishing fleets should be reciprocated by the EU and the other foreign countries. Same with workers’ freedom of movement, access to emergency health care, property rights, access to crime and security databases, etc. If either side imposes a restriction on the other side, a mirroring restriction should be implemented. (Exceptions would be where the restriction would be against a country’s best interests. So if the EU implements tariffs on UK food imports, that doesn’t mean the UK should automatically implement tariffs on EU food imports. And yes, I know the WTO treaty makes that complicated.) I’m curious which Leave campaigner has called for a right to be restricted in the UK, but not restricted in the EU? I trust that you, a Remain advocate, are not spreading misinformation. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/895 "2019-04-04T14:30:00Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > I’m curious which Leave campaigner has called for a right to be restricted in the UK, but not restricted in the EU? All of them, that was literally the basis of the Leave campaign. That we could keep all the benefits of EU membership, but not have to reciprocate. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/896 "2019-04-04T14:34:13Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > IF only that British MEP who said he was going to sort out EU fisheries policies had bothered to actually turn up to more than one meeting in the entire three years he was on the relevant committee, we might have sorted it out. What was that guy’s name again? Nigel something, I think. Whatever happened to him? Wait, you mean that some MEP’s consider the position to be a cushy political assignment, equivalent to an appointment, that they take as a party reward? A position with great salary and benefits which doesn’t mandate effort or commitment? I’m shocked I tell you, shocked, by that allegation. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/897 "2019-04-04T14:57:07Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > All of them, that was literally the basis of the Leave campaign. That we could keep all the benefits of EU membership, but not have to reciprocate. And yet more Remain misinformation. Nobody from the Leave campaign was promising freebies from the EU. The closest you’re going to get is Boris Johnson’s statement that he was partial to having his cake and partial to eating it. I’m sure you can find EU benefits that Leavers said would continue. I’ve mentioned a couple of them: access to emergency health care and sharing of crime and security databases. But those benefits would be reciprocal. I’m sure you can also find examples of EU agencies Leavers hoped to still benefit from after Leave. The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) is, I believe, one of them. However, any such benefit from an EU agency would be paid for, much like Norway pays for EU benefits. But go ahead, prove me wrong. Provide a specific example of a service that the UK would stop providing to EU nationals, that a Leave campaigner promised would continue post-Brexit. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/898 "2019-04-04T15:26:34Z")
I don’t remember the Leavers promising that UK citizens would have benefits the EU citizens wouldn’t. Rather they promised we’d be able to pick and choose what we wanted from the EU and reject the rest, eg ending free movement but still having tariff-free access to the single market via a trade deal. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/899 "2019-04-04T15:32:06Z")
Updates from the Houses of Parliament: The Lords are dealing with Cooper-Letwin today, or at least they are supposed to be. The daily business motion had seven amendments put forward by Brexiteer Lordships, and four hours into proceedings those still haven’t all been dealt with. It’s a filibuster attempt, clearly, with attendant lengthy speeches but the Lords has a way of dealing with that. There’s a rarely-used - because it is rarely needed - procedure where a member can propose a motion that is effectively “We vote that His Lordship/Her Ladyship shut up and sit down”. Such a motion requires a Division though, and those are not quick affairs in such an aged chamber. Once the Business motion is passed, then they can move on to Cooper-Letwin. Which will also have amendments to consider. They are probably going to have to sit all night, and potentially on Saturday too. Meanwhile, in the Commons, things have taken a symbolic turn. In a week that has already seen naked protesters gluing their arses to the glass in the public gallery, and a very rare tied vote, today the business of the House had to be adjourned for the day due to a rather large water leak in the roof of the Chamber. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/900 "2019-04-04T15:39:22Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > However, any such benefit from an EU agency would be paid for That’s exactly what Leave said wouldn’t happen. My cite is that stupid fucking bus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799.md?page=46)