# What will the UK do wrt Brexit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799 "2019-02-18T22:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1181 "2019-05-24T20:01:43Z")
> [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](#): > > Donald Trump on the other hand could never be accused of NOT being patriotic. Waving the flag is not being patriotic. Trump is not patriotic. Trump is a Trumpist. He has, on multiple occasions, done things to help himself while harming the country, to make himself happy while violating the rights of fellow citizens. If one wishes to make the case that he is clearly American because he has engaged in the same sort of anti-social activities in which many other Americans have engaged, one may make that plea. However, from dodging the draft to dodging his taxes, he is no patriot. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1182 "2019-05-24T20:15:15Z")
> [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](#): > > They breed like rabbits which is why the gross figure of the UK population is what matters, not just the number of immigrants. The excessive breeding of immigrants is a common false claim employed by nativists in many lands. Breeding most closely ties to the individual’s perception of economic welfare. The inclusion in a non-suppressive host country always results in a decline in the birth rate. The idiots pushing the “Eurabia” hoax tried to make a claim for being overrun and out-populated a dozen years ago and they have been proven wrong. You might very well make a claim that the birth rates have not fallen enough in Britain, (although they are falling), however, Britain’s immigrants have recently been arrivals from areas with subsistence farming and a lack of higher education. As the immigrants’ children have gotten better jobs, their birth rate is falling–just as it always has throughout the world. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1183 "2019-05-24T20:33:13Z")
> [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](#): > > Scotland and Wales are totally dependent on being aligned with England because without being so they could not survive financially. As for the people of Ulster, the danger of being invaded by a foreign power, Eire, that is on the other part of the island of Ireland would preclude wanting anything other than ever closer with the other parts of the UK quite apart from Ulster folk being British through and true. Wrong wrong wrong and more wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1184 "2019-05-24T20:35:25Z")
> [@Malaclypse\_the\_elder](#): > > They breed like rabbits which is why the gross figure of the UK population is what matters, not just the number of immigrants. Not sure what you’re going for here, but this in combination with your other offerings is hard to distinguish between racist dehumanizing bullshit. I suggest you dial it back quite a bit. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1185 "2019-05-24T21:25:21Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Not sure what you’re going for here, but this in combination with your other offerings is hard to distinguish between racist dehumanizing bullshit. I suggest you dial it back quite a bit. > > [/moderating] There’s a reason why it’s hard to distinguish that post from racist dehumanizing bullshit. Does Occam’s Razor kick in at some point? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1186 "2019-05-24T21:48:41Z")
I wonder… May clearly had sight of the exit polls, so just how bad are the results going to be? Pre-election polling put the Brexit Party on 30 seats, not quite a majority of the 72 available. But not that far off either. ---
**Author:** ![silent\_wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@silent\_wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silent_wonder)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1187 "2019-05-25T16:18:15Z")
From my superficial view it seems to me that the Brexit deal could have been agreed long ago had it not been for the contradiction inherent in the Northern Ireland problem: in order to leave the EU customs union, there would have to be a customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland, but at the same time Ireland and Northern Ireland don’t want a customs border between them. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1188 "2019-05-25T16:36:53Z")
> [@silent\_wonder](#): > > From my superficial view it seems to me that the Brexit deal could have been agreed long ago had it not been for the contradiction inherent in the Northern Ireland problem: in order to leave the EU customs union, there would have to be a customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland, but at the same time Ireland and Northern Ireland don’t want a customs border between them. Well, since obviously having Northern Ireland one the EU side of the customs border is unacceptable, and just as obviously having it on the UK side of the customs border is unacceptable, why has no one proposed the obvious solution of having a customs border on _both_ sides of Northern Ireland. That would piss absolutely everyone off, which means it’s the absolutely got to be the just and fair compromise everyone’s looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1189 "2019-05-25T16:45:17Z")
> [@silent\_wonder](#): > > From my superficial view it seems to me that the Brexit deal could have been agreed long ago had it not been for the contradiction inherent in the Northern Ireland problem: in order to leave the EU customs union, there would have to be a customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland, but at the same time Ireland and Northern Ireland don’t want a customs border between them. And that’s only an issue because May lost her majority in the election she so stupidly called. ---
**Author:** ![silent\_wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@silent\_wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silent_wonder)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1190 "2019-05-25T16:52:15Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And that’s only an issue because May lost her majority in the election she so stupidly called. Why, if she had not called the election would she agree to a customs border down the Irish Sea? Because EU would not agree to a customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland (Ireland would veto it). ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1191 "2019-05-25T17:15:29Z")
> [@silent\_wonder](#): > > Why, if she had not called the election would she agree to a customs border down the Irish Sea? Because EU would not agree to a customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland (Ireland would veto it). The absence of a hard border is also a substantial underpinning of the Good Friday Agreement, which is a legally binding international treaty. It’s not just a matter of doing Ireland a favour or not. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1192 "2019-05-25T17:46:03Z")
Chaps, just call the whole thing off until you have a specific and workable idea in mind. You’re just embarrassing yourselves. Try again if you must in 2030, that’s a good country, cheerio. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1193 "2019-05-25T17:56:29Z")
> [@silent\_wonder](#): > > Why, if she had not called the election would she agree to a customs border down the Irish Sea? Because EU would not agree to a customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland (Ireland would veto it). Because the NI MPs would not have been able to veto whatever solution she found. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1194 "2019-05-26T04:53:25Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I wonder… May clearly had sight of the exit polls, so just how bad are the results going to be? Pre-election polling put the Brexit Party on 30 seats, not quite a majority of the 72 available. But not that far off either. I doubt her resignation has much to do with exit polls(which are undoubtedly awful). More likely its the traditional political strategy of not resigning during an election - a steady ship and all that. I think she is loonier than I imagined if she believed resigning during this election would make her party’s prospects any worse. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1195 "2019-05-26T09:12:18Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I doubt her resignation has much to do with exit polls(which are undoubtedly awful). More likely its the traditional political strategy of not resigning during an election - a steady ship and all that. I think she is loonier than I imagined if she believed resigning during this election would make her party’s prospects any worse. Calls for her resignation had been getting steadily louder and more insistent for some time. On Tuesday she made a major speech, pitching her withdrawal agreement yet again. It was rejected by every single other party across the spectrum from the far left to the far right, as well as by a large section of the Tory party, and by many moderate Tory MPs who had supported her before. The 1922 Committee was actively considering changing the Conservative Party rules to vote her out, and were fully prepared to do so. By Wednesday it was clear even to May that she had absolutely no choice except to resign or be kicked out within days. The EU election was on Thursday. It wasn’t a good idea to resign immediately before or on the election day, as it could only make Conservative results even worse. So she resigned on Friday. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1196 "2019-05-26T09:39:09Z")
She’d already agreed, weeks ago, that she would go before the talks on the future relationship would get under way, if she got the withdrawal agreement through, so the scenario even she was offering was to go before Parliament’s summer recess or at the latest by the end of October. Setting a definite date has only come forward since her latest attempt to reconcile the irreconcilable was so comprehensively rubbished all round. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1197 "2019-05-26T09:44:16Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The 1922 Committee was actively considering changing the Conservative Party rules to vote her out, and were fully prepared to do so. By Wednesday it was clear even to May that she had absolutely no choice except to resign or be kicked out within days. Are they ever going to count those sealed ballots? It would be hilarious if it turned out the attempt to change the rules had actually failed. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1198 "2019-05-26T12:31:30Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Are they ever going to count those sealed ballots? It would be hilarious if it turned out the attempt to change the rules had actually failed. But more or less par for the course, in terms of the general haplessness of the Tories, particularly over the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1199 "2019-05-26T15:58:56Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Because the NI MPs would not have been able to veto whatever solution she found. That argument might hold water if the Tory MPs had all voted in favour of May’s deal, only to be defeated by a narrow vote of the NI MPs. But that’s not what happened. On the first vote in January, about a third of the Tory MPs voted against her deal, shown by the graphic in this article: > **[How did your MP vote on May's Brexit deal?](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/jan/15/how-did-your-mp-vote-on-mays-brexit-deal-meaningful-vote)** > > MPs rejected the prime minister’s withdrawal agreement with the EU by a margin of 230 votes, prompting a motion of no confidence from Jeremy Corbyn. Find out how your MP voted in the historic vote The Tory MPs are badly divided on this issue. Even if they generally agree on Brexit, there is no consensus on how to achieve it. That dynamic didn’t come out of the snap election. That’s been the fault lines in the Tories for years. It would still be there even if May hadn’t called the election. And, her departure changes nothing with respect to those fault lines. They won’t suddenly all be in favour of the Withdrawal Agreement, nor will they all suddenly agree on a no-deal Brexit, which seem to be the only two options for the Brexteers. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1200 "2019-05-26T16:20:50Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That argument might hold water if the Tory MPs had all voted in favour of May’s deal, only to be defeated by a narrow vote of the NI MPs. It wouldn’t have happened. May would not have lost the confidence of her party and the MPs would have lined up behind her. After losing her majority in the 2017 election MPs felt able to not follow her with the results we have seen over the past two years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799.md?page=61)