# What will the UK do wrt Brexit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799 "2019-02-18T22:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 73
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1442 "2019-08-17T05:42:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Only 34 per cent of voters want the prime minister to carry out a no-deal Brexit on 31 October if necessary – while 49 per cent urge him to either delay, cancel Brexit altogether, or stage a fresh referendum. Read the whole story, and you get 34% leave with no deal, 22% to revoke Article 50, and 20% for another referendum. If that’s a shift of opinion, it’s a firming up of the Brexiteers, in a still split electorate. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1443 "2019-08-18T05:35:21Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The true motivation of Johnson, Rees-Mogg, and the rest is to prevent the EU closing down the tax havens where they keep their money, and clamping down on money laundering and shady deals by shady companies. > > It really, really matters to them that they should not be forced to pay taxes like everyone else. > > I don’t know whether Rees-Mogg’s hedge fund is shorting Brexit-related stocks, but many others are. Some people stand to gain a lot of money if a no-deal Brexit results in the British economy crashing, and likewise to lose money if it doesn’t. Once the UK is out of the EU, they don’t care what happens next or who is in power. If the pound and the UK economy crash, so much the better. The next government will have too much on their hands to deal with tax-havens. They may even have facilitate them to avoid the economy crashing altogether. Chesterton summed it up nicely a century ago, when you still had people arguing that the rich were the ones who “really” had a stake in the country, so should have more say in governing it than the proles: > [@Gilbert](#): > > “You’ve got that eternal idiotic idea that if anarchy came it would come from the poor. Why should it? The poor have been rebels, but they have never been anarchists; they have more interest than anyone else in there being some decent government. The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn’t; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all. Aristocrats were always anarchists” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1444 "2019-08-18T09:34:54Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Chesterton summed it up nicely a century ago, when you still had people arguing that the rich were the ones who “really” had a stake in the country, so should have more say in governing it than the proles: Still? 2 American elections ago you had candidates complaining that the proles didn’t have “skin in the game”. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1445 "2019-08-18T11:13:22Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Meanwhile, Remain political parties are considering teaming up to oust Prime Minister Boris Johnson in order to stop a no-deal Brexit. However, there is not yet consensus on who should be the interim prime minister following Boris’ ousting, with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn thinking it should be him, I think that, in a nutshell, that shows Corbyn’s unsuitability for the top job. He has a golden opportunity and by insisting on his own leadership and his lust for glory, he fucks it up completely. > [@](#): > > and others favoring [a more unifying figure](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49372525) such as the “Father of the House” (longest continuously-serving MP) Kenneth Clarke, or the “Mother of the House” (longest continuously-serving female MP), Harriet Harman. well exactly, a “unity” government needs a unity candidate, something Corbyn could never be (even for his own MP’s) Clarke or Harman are infinitely better and more sensible options and if Corbyn cannot see that then he is an idiot (and I do think he is an idiot) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1446 "2019-08-18T11:16:50Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Read the whole story, and you get 34% leave with no deal, 22% to revoke Article 50, and 20% for another referendum. If that’s a shift of opinion, it’s a firming up of the Brexiteers, in a still split electorate. That was pretty much the position after the EU elections as well. “no deal” ends up as the most popular single, clear course of action. Those not sold on that are fragmented in what they actually do want Good luck for anyone administration dealing with that. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1447 "2019-08-18T11:50:11Z")
The only things that could reasonably done before Halloween are a no-deal, revocation, or the previously-denied deal. So while there are weird people who would prefer a revocation but a hard Brexit would be their second-best choice, a three-way ranked choice referendum would not necessarily come out with no deal as the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1448 "2019-08-18T12:12:56Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The fact that their new leader is named “Dick Braine” is probably one of the least ridiculous things about UKIP, tbh. Reminds me of the **C** anadian **C** onservative **R** eform **A** lliance **P** arty. What is the point of UKIP, when there’s also a Brexit Party? Keeping track of Nigel Farage’s resignations is too difficult. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1449 "2019-08-18T14:40:42Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > What is the point of UKIP, when there’s also a Brexit Party? Keeping track of Nigel Farage’s resignations is too difficult. Farage has other fish to fry and bigger ambitions than just Brexit, despite his party’s name. He’s all for “direct democracy” and, among other things, politicising the juridical and para-juridical systems (like the Electoral Commission). > **[Building the Brexit party: how Nigel Farage copied Italy's digital populists](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/21/brexit-party-nigel-farage-italy-digital-populists-five-star-movement)** > > The long read: The former Ukip leader forged an alliance with the Five Star Movement just as they bulldozed Italian politics using a tightly controlled digital operation. And now he’s putting their techniques to work in Britain Rump UKIP on the other hand don’t fancy being also-rans in Farage’s one-man band (that’s why he and they kept falling out when he was in UKIP) - they have egos and prejudices of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1450 "2019-08-18T14:51:50Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Read the whole story, and you get 34% leave with no deal, 22% to revoke Article 50, and 20% for another referendum. If that’s a shift of opinion, it’s a firming up of the Brexiteers, in a still split electorate. Yeah, but there’s not a great deal of distance between those who would favor revoking Article 50 and those who favor a second referendum. I would imagine that pretty much everyone who would outright revoke Article 50 would choose a second referendum if that was the only option on the table. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1451 "2019-08-18T15:05:35Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think that, in a nutshell, that shows Corbyn’s unsuitability for the top job. He has a golden opportunity and by insisting on his own leadership and his lust for glory, he fucks it up completely. > > well exactly, a “unity” government needs a unity candidate, something Corbyn could never be (even for his own MP’s) Clarke or Harman are infinitely better and more sensible options and if Corbyn cannot see that then he is an idiot (and I do think he is an idiot) I agree that a unity PM candidate would be best, but if Corbyn puts his foot down, then I think the other Remain parties and factions should acquiesce. A temporary Corbyn-led government for a few weeks or months is surely preferable to the decades-long effects of Brexit. The other Remain parties would need assurances from Corbyn that he wouldn’t push any non-Brexit-related agenda while at the controls. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1452 "2019-08-18T15:17:29Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The only way it could be done reasonably quickly would be for NI to give up its own government and become part of the Republic of Ireland. And there is absolutely no way they will ever do that. Is that true? I understand the Catholic birth rate in Northern Ireland is higher (for reasons unknown, I don’t think it’s the “every sperm is sacred thing”) so the territory will eventually be majority Catholic. Of course, this data is over a decade old. Maybe the Catholic birth rate has dropped. > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > I agree that a unity PM candidate would be best, but if Corbyn puts his foot down, then I think the other Remain parties and factions should acquiesce. A temporary Corbyn-led government for a few weeks or months is surely preferable to the decades-long effects of Brexit. The other Remain parties would need assurances from Corbyn that he wouldn’t push any non-Brexit-related agenda while at the controls. I don’t think people can trust Corbyn. Would he step down? He’d probably need to be forced out. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1453 "2019-08-18T15:32:43Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think that, in a nutshell, that shows Corbyn’s unsuitability for the top job. He has a golden opportunity and by insisting on his own leadership and his lust for glory, he fucks it up completely. > > well exactly, a “unity” government needs a unity candidate, something Corbyn could never be (even for his own MP’s) Clarke or Harman are infinitely better and more sensible options and if Corbyn cannot see that then he is an idiot (and I do think he is an idiot) He’s Leader of the Opposition. The right to form a government - if Johnson cannot - falls on his shoulders. If _he_ can’t - and I suspect he won’t be able to - then either Clarke or Harman are the obvious choices. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1454 "2019-08-18T16:54:37Z")
The reason Corbyn is unacceptable as a leader, temporary or otherwise, is that _he wants Brexit_. Brexit needs to be stopped, it needs to be permanently taken off the table. Not postponed, not renegotiated, but stopped completely. There’s no reason for the Lib Dems, the SNP, or anyone else who agrees with this to support Corbyn as leader. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1455 "2019-08-18T17:18:25Z")
There’s a good article in the Guardian today about Labour. Corbyn has been constantly demanding a general election for ages, and he wants to hold a general election rather than a referendum. But… Labour is utterly and hopelessly unprepared for a general election, and little can be done about that in the next few months. [Jeremy Corbyn wants a general election, but is his party ready to fight one?](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/18/mr-corbyn-wants-a-general-election-but-is-his-party-ready-to-fight-one) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1456 "2019-08-18T18:03:08Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > He’s Leader of the Opposition. The right to form a government - if Johnson cannot - falls on his shoulders. If _he_ can’t - and I suspect he won’t be able to - then either Clarke or Harman are the obvious choices. Specifically, Corbyn’s suggestion is to have it badged as a “unity” government. Something other than simply letting the main opposition run things. His attempt to put himself forward as that “unity” figure is laughable. He is seen (rightly in my opinion) as a non-starter as such a figurehead. If he really is serious about it then there are multiple other candidates who should have been put forward before him. Pretty much every labour supporter I’ve spoken to on this sees him as a divisive figure who is angling this for his own benefit, not the country’s. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1457 "2019-08-18T18:03:13Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The reason Corbyn is unacceptable as a leader, temporary or otherwise, is that _he wants Brexit_. Brexit needs to be stopped, it needs to be permanently taken off the table. Not postponed, not renegotiated, but stopped completely. There’s no reason for the Lib Dems, the SNP, or anyone else who agrees with this to support Corbyn as leader. But Jeremy Corbyn is Leader of the Opposition. He’s the only one who can absolutely guarantee a VONC takes place at all. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1458 "2019-08-18T18:05:23Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The reason Corbyn is unacceptable as a leader, temporary or otherwise, is that _he wants Brexit_. Brexit needs to be stopped, it needs to be permanently taken off the table. Not postponed, not renegotiated, but stopped completely. There’s no reason for the Lib Dems, the SNP, or anyone else who agrees with this to support Corbyn as leader. You seem to be suggesting that it should never be possible, in the future, to leave the E.U. Exactly how is that going to be decided? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1459 "2019-08-18T18:09:14Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > But Jeremy Corbyn is Leader of the Opposition. He’s the only one who can absolutely guarantee a VONC takes place at all. And that is utterly irrelevant for this situation. The precedents for a unity government do not require an opposition leader to be the head. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1460 "2019-08-18T18:18:21Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You seem to be suggesting that it should never be possible, in the future, to leave the E.U. Exactly how is that going to be decided? Ok, permanently was perhaps an exaggeration. Replace that with “for the forseeable future”. It’s become extremely clear that we can’t leave the EU without serious harm being done to the country, and unless that changes the idea of leaving should not even come up. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1461 "2019-08-18T18:22:33Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > But Jeremy Corbyn is Leader of the Opposition. He’s the only one who can absolutely guarantee a VONC takes place at all. And the best way to guarantee that the VONC will be won by the opposition is for there to be an acceptable alternative to Johnson, which Corbyn is not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799.md?page=72) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799.md?page=74)