# What will the UK do wrt Brexit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799 "2019-02-18T22:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1462 "2019-08-18T18:27:33Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And that is utterly irrelevant for this situation. The precedents for a unity government do not require an opposition leader to be the head. The Leader of the Opposition is the only person in Parliament (other than the PM) who can - without any other electoral shenanigans, no ifs, no buts - force a VONC. It has to be initiated by Corbyn. Not ideal, I know. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1463 "2019-08-18T18:27:35Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Ok, permanently was perhaps an exaggeration. Replace that with “for the forseeable future”. It’s become extremely clear that we can’t leave the EU without serious harm being done to the country, and unless that changes the idea of leaving should not even come up. I don’t think you can even do that, I don’t see a way you could legislate such a request that doesn’t unreasonably tie the hands of a future governement. The possibility of leaving the E.U. is written into its laws and I think that absolutely has to remain a possibility for any country seeing as none of us can forsee how the E.U. will turn out in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1464 "2019-08-18T18:34:52Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > The Leader of the Opposition is the only person in Parliament (other than the PM) who can - without any other electoral shenanigans, no ifs, no buts - force a VONC. It has to be initiated by Corbyn. Not ideal, I know. That is irrelevant to whether he should form the head of a unity government. Seeing how he is distrusted so widely by so many (and plenty of his own MP’s) he is, short of Jacob Rees-Mogg, pretty much the worst choice. Were he any sort of a leader, he’d suggest another candidate. It is blindingly obvious that he can’t lead this. Either he sees that and chooses to put himself forward anyway, in which case he is putting personal gain over the needs of the country, or he doesn’t see it and is as thick and useless as I already think he is. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2019, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1465 "2019-08-19T10:40:16Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > The Leader of the Opposition is the only person in Parliament (other than the PM) who can - without any other electoral shenanigans, no ifs, no buts - force a VONC. It has to be initiated by Corbyn. Not ideal, I know. For a Vote of No Confidence to pass, Corbyn has to have the support of his own party, the SNP, the Lib-Dems, the independent MP’s, Change UK, Plaid Cymru, and the Green Party MP, plus at least one Conservative MP. I’m not sure how the independent MP’s are aligned, so the VONC might need a handful of Conservative rebels in order to succeed. If Corbyn thinks he can win the general election, the smart thing to do is to bring all these parties together with the intention of forcing a general election. That’s going to require trust, and Corbyn hasn’t been acting trustworthy. He might win over all the above parties if he publicly and clearly promised that his only acts as Prime Minister before the election would be to ask for a delay for Brexit, and to call the election. Instead, he’s asking to lead a unity government. He’s not going to get any Conservatives rebelling in order to put him in charge. Even if he made a promise to only be a caretaker PM, he’s still going to face an uphill battle getting any Conservative MP to provide him a declaration of confidence. Having a different caretaker PM, especially if it’s Ken Clarke, would have a much higher chance of attracting Conservative rebels. But that only works for Corbyn if he thinks he can win the election. Instead of being bold, he’s dithering, which isn’t going to encourage any party or MP reluctant to support Corbyn to back him. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1466 "2019-08-19T15:38:30Z")
All the reporting about stopping on No Deal is about a VONC leading to a request for extension and an election. And the focus has been so much on who would be caretaker PM and what kind of coalition you could get that it’s easy to forget that this isn’t the only way Parliament can stop No Deal. It would be difficult to get a VONC majority no matter if the planned new PM is Corbyn or Not-Corbyn. But if you think the votes are there to get an anti-No Deal VONC, then you’ve got the votes to just stop No Deal. We went through this process in March: we’ve established that Parliament can take control of the business of the House, and that it can bring a motion requiring the government to take action with respect of A50, and that it can amend legislation with regard to dates of exit. I’m sure Dominic Grieve and Yvette Cooper have half a dozen other routes to turn a Parliamentary vote into No Deal avoidance. All the back and forth over who is putting country ahead of party and who is the conniving careerist/backstabber are all very revealing in their own way, but not strictly germane to the question of how No Deal could be stopped. If the vote against No Deal doesn’t involve turning on your own party, putting a divisive figure into Number 10, or admitting that LOTO is a liability, then it’s much easier to get the numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1467 "2019-08-19T19:22:40Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Were he any sort of a leader, he’d suggest another candidate. It is blindingly obvious that he can’t lead this. Either he sees that and chooses to put himself forward anyway, in which case he is putting personal gain over the needs of the country, or he doesn’t see it and is as thick and useless as I already think he is. He favors a hard Brexit. That is what he honestly thinks will be for the best. Putting the country ahead of his personal ambitions means getting a no-deal Brexit over himself becoming PM. The Conservatives destroying themselves and then getting the blame for Brexit is a huge bonus, but in the end its not his main objective. Brexit is the objective. He is being difficult about who would be caretaker PM, because he doesn’t want anyone! Of course, he wants to run silent on that so the conservatives get the blame, and Labour get the votes in the next election. UK elections have always been about which party makes themselves most unpalatable to the voters, and right now the conservatives are miles ahead. Yes, Labour is doing poorly in the polls but history is pretty clear that come election day, the first past the post system ensures that the party the voters hate least out of Labour and the Conservatives will win. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1468 "2019-08-20T05:01:57Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Instead of being bold, he’s dithering, which isn’t going to encourage any party or MP reluctant to support Corbyn to back him. I’m not sure about the dithering. The reports of his latest speech suggest that for him the biggest prize is a general election to produce a 1945-style change of direction. That may be wildly unrealistic, and he’s no Clem Attlee (more like George Lansbury without the moral stature, if you want to go even further back in Labour history), but it suggests that in his heart of hearts, Brexit is a sideshow best kept out of, in the hope of building his idea of “socialism in one country” on the ruins. It may be wrong (and it would be possible to be much more radical than their 2017 manifesto within the EU), but it would be a coherent position. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1469 "2019-08-21T14:49:08Z")
English soccer football manager Ian Holloway [provides a perfect illustration](https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1164058646634008579) of the pig-ignorant moronism of Brexiteers while criticizing this season’s new handball rule in the English Premier League. > [@Ian Holloway](#): > > “I hope we get out, Brexit, because that’s what people are voting for and sorting that out because you cannot have someone telling us how to do our own game.” Needless to say, the new handball rule has been instituted by the English Premier League and has absolutely jack shit to do with the E.U. or any European governing body. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1470 "2019-08-21T14:58:06Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Needless to say, the new handball rule has been instituted by the English Premier League and has absolutely jack shit to do with the E.U. or any European governing body. :rolleyes: To be specific: > [@](#): > > The Laws of the Game are authorized on an annual basis by the International Football Association Board (IFAB) and provided by the Fédération Internationale de Football Associations (FIFA). (from the U.S. Soccer Federation). But yes, he’s an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1471 "2019-08-21T15:10:24Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > To be specific: (from the U.S. Soccer Federation). > > But yes, he’s an idiot. There are five entities that have a vote at IFAB: FIFA itself, the English FA, the Scottish FA, the Welsh FA and the Northern Irish FA. FIFA has 4 votes, and the UK FAs have one each. A rule-change needs at least six votes out of eight to pass. So, yeah, he’s an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1472 "2019-08-21T15:12:36Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > To be specific: (from the U.S. Soccer Federation). > > But yes, he’s an idiot. Yes, you’re right, it’s a new handball rule for all football around the globe, not just EPL. So still has jack shit to do with the E.U. or Brexit. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1473 "2019-08-21T15:51:15Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > English soccer football manager Ian Holloway [provides a perfect illustration](https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1164058646634008579) of the pig-ignorant moronism of Brexiteers while criticizing this season’s new handball rule in the English Premier League. > > Needless to say, the new handball rule has been instituted by the English Premier League and has absolutely jack shit to do with the E.U. or any European governing body. :rolleyes: Are you sure you want to discuss personality politics and morons the day after Diane Abbott comes out as a Remainer? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1474 "2019-08-21T16:29:11Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Are you sure you want to discuss personality politics and morons the day after Diane Abbott comes out as a Remainer? That’s great to hear. > [@Diane Abbott](#): > > “The [Labour] party is committed to a referendum now and Jeremy has made that clear.” ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1475 "2019-08-27T14:53:10Z")
[There was a meeting of the leaders of anti-No Deal parties today.](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/27/brexit-jeremy-corbyn-prioritise-legislation-stop-no-deal-meeting-opposition-parties-labour) The upshot is that they have agreed to pursue a legislative solution rather than the nuclear option of VONC. At this stage. VONC may still come in to play if no such solution can be found. > [@](#): > > Jeremy Corbyn has backed cross-party plans to delay a vote of no confidence in Boris Johnson and prioritise rebel MPs’ attempts to use legislation to stop a no-deal Brexit. > > In a meeting with opposition parties convened by the Labour leader, Corbyn is understood to have opened the discussion by reassuring MPs that Labour would not seek a premature vote of no confidence that might stymie legislative efforts to stop no deal. > > The meeting, attended by the Scottish National party’s Ian Blackford, Jo Swinson of the Liberal Democrats, the Green party’s Caroline Lucas and the Independent Group for Change’s Anna Soubry, agreed to focus efforts on passing legislation to stop a no-deal Brexit. > > Although Dominic Grieve, Oliver Letwin and Caroline Spelman, all prominent Conservatives opposed to Brexit, were invited to the meeting, no Tory MPs attended. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1476 "2019-08-27T16:32:26Z")
I watched the [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGqmirVmFNQ) of their press conference, and things seem a bit more promising. They didn’t mince their words. They talked about a ‘coup’ by Johnson, and called a no-deal Brexit the biggest crisis since WWII. They promised to put party and personal rivalries aside and work together. Anna Soubrey denounced Tory MPs who call this ‘madness’ in private, but won’t come out and vote against it. She called on them to have the courage of their convictions for the sake of their constituents. John McDonnell [said](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK4_Ik1_bUA), “Prime ministers come and prime ministers go, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen a prime minister like this who has the potential to threaten the very nature of our democracy.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1477 "2019-08-28T12:01:58Z")
And…here we go: [Johnson asks Queen to suspend Parliament](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49493632) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1478 "2019-08-28T12:32:17Z")
What does “suspending parliament” mean? Can the Queen say no? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1479 "2019-08-28T13:12:12Z")
I’m seeing that meme of the sailor cartoon saying, “Well yes, but actually no” in my mind. Very interested in UK dopers opinions. I initially thought that the expectation is that she would prorogue Parliament in accordance with the norm of non-interference but honestly proroguing or not proroguing are both majorly political acts. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1480 "2019-08-28T13:17:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What does “suspending parliament” mean? Can the Queen say no? Suspending parliament is what it sounds like- basically a shut down, so no official discussions or, more importantly, votes can take place. Theoretically yes, the queen can refuse assent; in practice, no. The Queen officially holds the power to refuse, but it’s basically ceremonial. Although she may privately advise the PM, she’s not going to publicly oppose the government. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1481 "2019-08-28T13:21:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What does “suspending parliament” mean? Prorogation usually happens every year. It’s the process that leads to a new Queen’s Speech (which is the Government setting out its new legislative agenda). It basically temporarily stops all parliamentary business, guillotines any legislation that hasn’t managed to be completed, essentially ties up loose ends and leaves a clean slate for the new Parliament. It’s usually just for a couple of weeks. In this case it’s been over two years since the last Queens Speech as the government decided that because of Brexit pressures a much longer Parliament than usual was a good idea. And Brexit is the problem here. The 31st of October is rapidly approaching and, as regular thread readers will know, it’s all been a bit of a disaster. Party conference season is also coming up, and the Commons usually votes to recess for three weeks so that MPs can deal with Party business. This year it was looking likely that there was no majority for this recess to take place, thus giving Parliament an extra three weeks to deal with Brexit fire-fighting. By proroguing Parliament for five weeks, Johnson is attempting to limit Parliament’s input into late-stage Brexit stuff - and while it’s very likely legal to do so\* it’s causing _quite a bit of a fuss_. Parliament is back next week - expect fireworks. - A cross-party group of MPs have a petition being heard tomorrow at the Court of Session in Edinburgh to test this [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799.md?page=75)