# What will the UK do wrt Brexit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799 "2019-02-18T22:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 88
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1743 "2020-12-27T19:42:05Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > And leaving _will_ wreck the country. We finally have a deal, but every evidence-based assessment shows that the country will be poorer, worse off, than if we stayed in. “Worse off” is not at all the same thing as “wrecked”. > [@](#): > > And that’s leaving aside the political damage that has been done. The country is polarised like never before, between - like America - the incurious know-nothings who hate experts and the knowledge-oriented aghast that the lunatics now run the asylum. Rather a large excluded middle there but I agree with you the hate on all sides (mostly but not exclusively the right) is disappointing. I don’t think that’s the fault of most Leave voters though. > [@](#): > > Scotland will leave, and Ireland will be reunited. Do you think that’s not wrecked? Not particularly - if they want to go their own way, so be it. Of course, a Leaver could hardly say otherwise without blatant hypocrisy, but it’s just not an issue for me. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that those parts of the UK bring lots of wonderful scenery and some lovely people, but politically and probably economically they are a bit of a pain in the arse. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1744 "2020-12-27T20:52:04Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > What’s more, the Leave decision wasn’t based on economics, it was based on British nationalism. I Yes, not to mention racism and xenophobia. Look, Boris took a couple pages out of trumps playbook- appeal to the racists, play on fears, make promises that were never intended to be kept. Certainly there was pointless bureaucratics, we have them in the USA also, even without the EU. States complain all the time that Wash DC is imposing “stupid” new rules upon them. But of course their congresscritters get a vote too. The thing is, when a member of the EU, GB could have worked towards changing those rules. But they didnt. Instead GB left- and didnt even take their ball. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1745 "2020-12-27T20:54:30Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > I am also against the idea that refugees can be alloted to EU nations by the EU and individual nations cannot disagree with their imposed quota - seems to me that control over your own borders is an absolutely fundamental requirement of being a nation state. Indeed they _can_ disagree. All EU members states get a vote. Of course that means you are sometimes outvoted. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1746 "2020-12-27T22:20:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure. But look at it this way. England is about the size of a larger US state- which indeed has _law made outside the state and imposed on it_ . However, GB has had this for hundreds of years- what is parliament to Wales and Scotland (etc) but " law made outside them and imposed on them". Sure people in Wales and Scotland get a vote in your Parliament, but GB got to vote in the EU. > > Smaller political entities have **always** had _law made outside them and imposed on them_ . Cities by Counties, Counties by States (in the US) and upon them by Federal. How are Californians enjoying having laws (and the current president) imposed on them by smaller rural states? This is exactly the wrong argument to make to leavers. The UK is a sovereign country, and the fear it could end up as a state in a United States of Europe was a motivation for many leave voters. > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > What’s more, the Leave decision wasn’t based on economics, it was based on British nationalism. It was a vote for UK sovereignty, a rejection of EU federalism, and an assertion that British voters have far more affection for the UK government, however much they might gripe about it, than for the EU government. > > The Remain campaign didn’t even try to sell the benefits of EU government. There was no sales pitch that the goals of the EU were the best goals for Britain. Instead, it was an argument of the benefits that the British people would lose, and that the worst-case economic effects that would happen in the unlikely event that a no-deal Brexit occurred needed to be avoided. Remain had no compelling positive argument and that’s why they lost. This is correct, and a terrible misstep by the Remain campaign. I thought so at the time, which was why I was so afraid leave would win. And it did. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1747 "2020-12-27T22:22:07Z")
43% of the country voted for the pro-Brexit parties in 2019 but FPTP screwed the country over again and pro-Brexitism has remained a firm minority for many years since the vote. I know I’m on the right side but Brexiters have clung to power through lies and abuse of the law. I was willing to give Brexit a chance, until it was clear in early 2017 that what was being offered wasn’t remotely what was sold in 2016. You cannot tell me with a straight face that if people knew in 2016 what we’d have gone through, and the deal we’d have at the end of it, that they’d have voted to Leave. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1748 "2020-12-27T22:25:19Z")
> “Worse off” is not at all the same thing as “wrecked”. Weasel words. We were told in 2016 that there were no downsides to Brexit and nobody’s livelihoods would be at risk. Care to address that? > Rather a large excluded middle there but I agree with you the hate on all sides (mostly but not exclusively the right) is disappointing. I don’t think that’s the fault of most Leave voters though. There are soft-Brexiters, yes, but they’ve either disowned Brexit (I know a few) or have gaslighted themselves into believing that what they’re getting it somehow what they were persuaded to support in 2016. They’re incredibly incurious and only read headlines and swallow slogans. My own father who I love and otherwise respect is of this sort. He’s very smart, compassionate and thoughtful, but when it comes to Brexit his faculties just shut down. > Not particularly - if they want to go their own way, so be it. Of course, a Leaver could hardly say otherwise without blatant hypocrisy, but it’s just not an issue for me. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that those parts of the UK bring lots of wonderful scenery and some lovely people, but politically and probably economically they are a bit of a pain in the arse. Ah, so it wasn’t ‘believing in Britain’ then. Leave told us the Union was safe. Can you point to a single thing that Leave claimed that is still deliverable by the result? Anything at all? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1749 "2020-12-27T23:48:56Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > > “Worse off” is not at all the same thing as “wrecked”. > > Weasel words. We were told in 2016 that there were no downsides to Brexit and nobody’s livelihoods would be at risk. Care to address that? Not really, because it wasn’t a big factor in my decision. > [@](#): > > There are soft-Brexiters, yes, but they’ve either disowned Brexit (I know a few) or have gaslighted themselves into believing that what they’re getting it somehow what they were persuaded to support in 2016. They’re incredibly incurious and only read headlines and swallow slogans. My own father who I love and otherwise respect is of this sort. He’s very smart, compassionate and thoughtful, but when it comes to Brexit his faculties just shut down. Ok great, none of this applies to me. My primary news sources are _Private Eye_ and the BBC, with a smattering of this site and Facebook (yes, I know, but my Facebook feed is a vast socialist-leaning bubble, generally speaking). I certainly don’t trust any of the mainstream press (well, I suppose The Guardian is usually trustworthy, though they have their agendas and blind spots too. > [@](#): > > Ah, so it wasn’t ‘believing in Britain’ then. Leave told us the Union was safe. Again, not really relevant to me as it’s not an issue I feel strongly about. > [@](#): > > Can you point to a single thing that Leave claimed that is still deliverable by the result? Anything at all? Yes - we have left. Maybe it’s a mistake, maybe not, still too early to tell. My main takeaway from this discussion is that as someone else mentioned, you still seem to be stuck in 2016. You are arguing with a straw man rather than with me. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1750 "2020-12-28T00:09:44Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Our trade relations will certainly change, this is not a zero sum game - there is a whole world out there where we can develop trade relations, relationships that up till now have often been hampered by the dead hand of the EU tarriff wall - which is nothing more than a protectionist barrier. Less EU trade does not equal less trade, in fact leaving the EU itself does not mean necassarily less EU trade either - this is the dependent attitude of the remainers, afraid of change, afraid going out into the world for yourself, afraid of having to develop new relationships, too comfortable with now and fearful of the future. This is the point that I simply do not get. The UK had full access, without tariffs, to the single largest trading bloc in the world, close to half a billion consumers, with a reasonably high standard of living and incomes. The UK has chosen to withdraw from that large trading bloc because of … we can do better elsewhere in the world? With countries that are farther away from us, across an ocean or two, rather than just across the Channel? If the UK wants to do it for reasons of sovereignty, I can see that. But saying that withdrawing from the single largest trading bloc in the world, right on your doorstep, will improve your trading options? That you will have to build up and improve trade relations with other countries or trade blocs, and negotiate separate trade deals with them, as a single country rather than as part of a trading bloc that represents half a billion people? I’m just not getting it, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1751 "2020-12-28T00:14:44Z")
And I’m not talking about _you_. That seems to be where we’re talking past one another. We can already see that it was a mistake. We have fewer rights. We’ve spent more money Brexiting than we spent in forty years of membership. We have a pathetic excuse for a trade deal that sees our trading credentials greatly diminished. There was nothing - absolutely nothing - that EU membership impeded about our global trade. It’s all there, dude. As for being stuck in 2016…the Brexit debate hasn’t moved from there, mate. We only this week finally got an answer to what Brexit is, and it’s not what people voted for. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1752 "2020-12-28T00:43:38Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > How are Californians enjoying having laws (and the current president) imposed on them by smaller rural states? Smaller rural states more or less control the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1753 "2020-12-28T00:44:08Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > The UK is a sovereign country, And so was Wales and Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1754 "2020-12-28T00:59:48Z")
The New York Times. [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqRPY0RXYAI2hEF?format=jpg&name=large) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqRPY0RXYAI2hEF?format=jpg&name=large) ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1755 "2020-12-28T01:16:48Z")
Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have devolved administrations that have responsibility for some of the functions of a state and a share of the UK tax revenue. But they are not sovereign, they cannot undertake treaties with other sovereign states, they have no responsibility for defence, they have no control over borders. Most key elements of sovereignty remain with the UK government. If Scotland was sovereign the SNP would have no reason to exist. These devolved administrations came about as a result of the search for a constitutional solution to the Irish Question and the Good Friday agreement. It will be interesting to see how that condundrum plays out and whether the UK constitution starts coming apart again. The details of the UK/EU deal will be pored over. Somewhere between the rest of the UK and Northern Ireland and the Irish state a border has been drawn between the EU and UK. What could possibly go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1756 "2020-12-28T19:42:05Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > There should have been no expectation that UK citizens would be able to keep all the benefits of EU membership Gee, I wonder who was responsible for promoting those false expectations. They sure sound like very competent and trustworthy people, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1757 "2020-12-28T19:54:35Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Your analogy fails to mention that the steel-toothed trap that was clamping down on the foot has also been removed. To the extent that a mousetrap on the toe counts as a “steel-toothed trap” on the foot, sure. “Shooting off the mousetrap-toed foot and hopefully not losing the entire limb to gangrene was the best outcome we could have expected” is not a super-persuasive justification for the measures adopted. > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > What’s more, the Leave decision wasn’t based on economics, it was based on British nationalism. It was a vote for UK sovereignty, a rejection of EU federalism, and an assertion that British voters have far more affection for the UK government, however much they might gripe about it, than for the EU government. Aw, how sweet. But with all due deference to the overmastering British penchant for sentimentality, I think British voters would have been better off in the long run just sending a nice card to the UK government for Mother’s Day and sticking with their trade bloc for practical purposes. > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > The Remain campaign didn’t even try to sell the benefits of EU government. […] Remain had no compelling positive argument and that’s why they lost. Well, internationalist pragmatism is never going to win against isolationism when nationalistic sentimentality is the referee. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1758 "2020-12-28T20:03:48Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > How are Californians enjoying having laws (and the current president) imposed on them by smaller rural states? Speaking as a resident of another large liberal US state on the opposite coast, my opinion is that while we don’t particularly enjoy the effects of the disproportionate political influence exercised by the smaller rural states, we consider it a damn sight better than attempting to divorce ourselves from the entire union and having to lose or re-establish all our current membership benefits at a far more exorbitant cost. > [@DemonTree](#): > > The UK is a sovereign country, and the fear it could end up as a state in a United States of Europe was a motivation for many leave voters. Heh. You should be so lucky, cousin. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1759 "2020-12-28T21:00:33Z")
Is your argument that your state is better off in than out, or just that the costs of leaving would be too steep to make it worthwhile? Would you recommend to Canadians to join, for example? I think it’s a legitimate opinion to prefer the UK end up like Canada rather than California, even if it takes some pain to get there, and even if Canadians are poorer than Californians. And it’s equally legitimate to prefer the opposite, or to believe it’s irrelevant as the EU will never integrate to that extent. But the Remain campaigners should have tried to sell the benefits of cooperation, shared values and interests, and being part of a larger and more powerful whole rather than taking a ‘what we can get out of it’ view, and trying to scare people with dire warnings. The real problem is that the UK government have been taking that view themselves, rather than trying to build the EU into something better. That’s where the rot started. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1760 "2020-12-28T21:02:32Z")
I love that Remain is condemned for being honest but ‘pessimistic’ (read: realistic) but Leave is not condemned for lying about everything and selling a total scam that is now ruining the country. What’s the moral here? It’s okay to lie as long as you win? You’d better not be truthful if it means bad marketing? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1761 "2020-12-28T21:05:18Z")
I recall when David Cameron went to a meeting of EU leaders in huge blaze of publicity stating that he was going to gain some concessions from the EU - although the cost itself was not specified. He went there with a widely publicised position that included some changes to the freedom of movement rules - mainly centred around being able to deport individuals and denying entry to other (largely unspecified) individuals but the assumption was criminals and terrorism suspects - it was never really made all that clear. He returned in a way that made it plain he got little, or nothing except a few words of ‘Maybe we will look at it and other issues’ type of language. My impression was that his requirements were not all that well defined or articulated. Alhtough he put a brave face on it, the UK public largely saw it as a humiliation - and his political opponents made sure to capitalise on that, and interviews with other EU leaders for UK tv revealed a lot of smugness. The EU position was predictable, freedom of movement is a red line and any dilution was in turn a dilution of the whole EU concept and not the tiniest jot of it could be altered in any way - which for UK electorate who was rather too much - our leader humiliated when asking for what was perceived as very small changes. Whatever your view on all this, the reality is that it absolutely energised the Leave element within the Rightist side of our poltical spectrum, and gave UKIP a significant level of support - that suppport was very largely drawn from the Right of centre political opinion and was splitting their vote such that they would massively lose the next election. In order to calm down and placate the right and bring the cente right vote together David Cameron promised a Leave referendum - and we know what happened as a result. Nigel Farage, leader of the UKIP party certainly nailed the whole sorry mess and the screw ups by both the EU and the mainstream Conservative party. He pointed out that had the EU moved even a little on restricting entry to the UK on the reasonable grounds of previous criminal history or the identification of possible terrorism associates, there would simply never have been a Leave referendum because UKIP would not have been able to garner support, and Cameron could have portrayed this minor change as a great success and concession wrested from the EU. Certainly David Cameron put his party politics to the fore of his concerns Leavers can be grateful that the EU was so intransigent and smug - of course you can argue ‘Well why shouldn’t they be that way?’ Well history has the answer, Leavers are prepared to accept the cost of their choice and I doubt that many believe that there will not be significant negative consequencies, Remainers seem to think Leavers were totally misled and conned, but you’ll find that most of them were not, and do expect things to become more difficult for a time. That is a price they have deemed acceptable. The cost of loss of sovereignty - as demonstrated of lack of border control policy is a price to great for them However, the flip side of it is this, there will be significant negative consequencies for the EU - there will be a change in the poltical balance of the EU which is highly likely to lead both to a reduction in EU grants, increased burden of payment into the EU by fewer nations, a change in the outlook of the EU parliament such that more and larger spending bills will be proposed and passed. As for trade - manufacturing does not run facilities on 100% profit, industry attempts to run above break even and in some industries that can be a high percentage of turnover - even a loss of 10% trade can have a devastating effect in some industries and can translate into large amounts in a short time. Whist I have seen claims that the UK represents a relatively small amount of EU export, fact is that is a general figure, the EU consumes significant amounts of trade in specific outputs - look at the car industry. Increased tariffs for imports would be hugely damaging. Now you’d think it works both ways, it does in a way - but - 20% extra EU import duty also means a 20% import duty on EU goods to UK. So now major EU industries are now competing in a world market to sell into the UK, and their cars are now 20% more expensive - whereas Japanese cars still cost the same. We can repeat that for many other products. If leaving the EU zone fully is actually the disaster that the doom mongers claim, sterling will fall, and it will fall plenty - we will have inflation, but it will also mean that imports cost even more - especially from the EU - but not necassarily all that much for other world goods that attract EU importation duty. What will also happen is that the cost of UK goods will also fall - it will be cheaper to buy goods from the UK becuase of the devaluation. At its most extreme you could imagine sterling collapse - with maybe a 20% drop, now your EU goods will cost up to 40% more to bring into the UK - and yet UK goods even with the EU 20% WTO rules will cost about the same in sterling. Lots and lots of disruption to be sure, but it really is not in the interests of the EU to watch UK currency to fall due to massive loss of UK markets.To have a much cheaper cost high volume producer right on your own borders is going to be a problem. This is why there simply will not be a UK-EU doomsday - our costs will increase but not all that much - but we will see. Last caveat of course - we do not actually know the contents of the deal that has been negotiated, we don’t know if our parliament will support it, times and governments change both in the UK and the EU, it took 45 years to get to this point and I think that at most we will slowly drift away from EU institutions and even then there will be many areas of common interest. The deal, if it happens, is certainly not the final position or accommadation, and you can expect lots of arrangements and mini deals in the decades to come. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1762 "2020-12-28T21:15:07Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Is your argument that your state is better off in than out Absofuckinglutely. > [@DemonTree](#): > > I think it’s a legitimate opinion to prefer the UK end up like Canada rather than California Well, I haven’t seen any evidence that the UK would realistically have ended up “like California” in a much more strongly federalized EU. But AFAICT even that would have been an economically advantageous outcome compared to where you seem to be headed now. ISTM that being “like Canada” is a rather optimistic prognosis. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799.md?page=87) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799.md?page=89)