# What will the UK do wrt Brexit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799 "2019-02-18T22:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 97
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1924 "2021-01-15T14:37:21Z")
Especially because it never was about “sovereignty” or “taking back control”. It was about dodging taxes. You might notice that that part is the only thing about Brexit that actually works. The likes of Rees-Mogg still can’t believe that they are getting away with it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1925 "2021-01-15T15:00:52Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > … It was about dodging taxes. > You might notice that that part is the only thing about Brexit that actually works. … I’m not disputing your claim. But it’s a bit telegraphic for an ignorant Yank to follow. May I ask which taxes are being dodged by who via what means? What’s specifically different pre- vs. post-Brexit? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1926 "2021-01-15T18:05:15Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > The likes of Rees-Mogg still can’t believe that they are getting away with it. And he thinks [the fish are happy](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2021/jan/14/jacob-rees-mogg-fish-british-happier-because-brexit-video). So that’s all right. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1927 "2021-01-15T20:38:48Z")
There are some EU tax rules, forbidding routing income through tax havens. Leading figures in the “leave” movement stood to gain a [fortune](https://lloydhardy.com/news/Jacob_Rees_Mogg_Makes_Billions_From_No_Deal_Brexit/). That is the motivation of one part of the leave movement the other driver was Russia that stood to weaken the EU. The people that voted for Brexit were spun a web of transparent lies. Last I checked every bullshit “argument” of the Leave movement has been debunked over and over. The people that are now running the British government do not give a shit about the rubes that voted for them. Hence the total lack of preparation and utter chaos at the borders. (Haulage firms are avoiding the Channel like the plague; volume is at one fifth of pre-Brexit and they still have to wait ridiculously long) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1928 "2021-01-15T20:55:40Z")
Thank you. The nexus of fat cats, politicians, and tax havens can fill volumes. Funny how little came of the > **[Panama Papers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > The Panama Papers (Spanish: Papeles de Panamá) are 11.5 million leaked documents (or 2.6 terabytes of data) that were published beginning on April 3, 2016. The papers detail financial and attorney–client information for more than 214,488 offshore entities. The documents, some dating back to the 1970s, were created by, and taken from, former Panamanian offshore law firm and corporate service provider Mossack Fonseca. > The documents contain perso... ---
**Author:** ![its\_the\_daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bb73d2/32.png) [@its\_the\_daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/its_the_daddy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1929 "2021-01-15T21:49:19Z")
Want to understand the terrifying philosophical background to Rees-Mogg’s and the Brexiters’ politics? > **[How to explain Jacob Rees-Mogg? Start with his father's books](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/nov/09/mystic-mogg-jacob-rees-mogg-willam-predicts-brexit-plans#)** > > William Rees-Mogg wrote the prophetic The Sovereign Individual and had views on capitalism and chaos that have fascinating links to his son’s enthusiasm for Brexit “_The Sovereign Individual_ details strategies necessary for adapting financially to the next phase of Western civilization”. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1930 "2021-01-16T14:22:17Z")
Short version: > The nimble elite will run happily roughshod across the heads and shoulders of the teeming masses of useless loser humanity. And rightly so. It’s _good_ to be one of that elite. Mind your balance; they’re a wobbly surface to run on. See also: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/h0iAcQVIokg/maxresdefault.jpg "The People are Revolting") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0iAcQVIokg) ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1931 "2021-01-20T04:53:53Z")
> **[Brexit has driven 2,500 finance jobs and €170bn to France, says bank governor](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/20/brexit-has-driven-2500-finance-jobs-and-170bn-to-france-says-bank-governor)** > > Bank of France chief claims ‘50 British entities’ have moved over the Channel, while Dublin, Amsterdam and Frankfurt have also benefited > In particular, Brexit has forced Europe to develop its financial autonomy, de Galhau said. > > The EU will allow London clearinghouses to operate across the continent for 18 months, because the union does not have comparable institutions of its own. > > Once that deadline has expired, however, financial transactions in euros are in theory going to have to be settled within the EU. One area where Britain has genuinely been a world leader is banking. Forcing the EU to upgrade its own systems instead of relying on London is not just shooting yourself in the foot, it’s chopping off your foot. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1932 "2021-01-20T09:45:02Z")
> **[EU proposal for visa-free tours by musicians despite Brexit was rejected,...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-music-tours-visa-free-eu-b1786588.html)** > > After days of insisting Brussels threw out a deal, government acknowledges it did spurn an offer – but refuses to explain why Brexit will be - and has already begun to be - devastating for musicians (pop and classical alike) who relied on being able to tour and perform to a wide range of audiences. Now travel to Europe involves arranging costly and time-consuming work visas, which erase what were already very thin profit margins for touring. And the exceptionally stupid part is that the EU offered to allow visa-free tours and Boris said no, for no good reason whatsoever. Yet another way in which Brits will suffer thanks to Brexit. (And don’t get me started on the hot mess around [Erasmus](https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/news/article/erasmus-and-the-turing-scheme-a-metaphor-for-brexit)…) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1933 "2021-01-20T13:37:04Z")
I expect that those 2,500 finance jobs that moved out of the UK are high-paying ones, with salaries in six or seven figures. So the UK will lose the income tax revenue from these people, along with their spending on real estate, dining, entertainment and so forth. So, good job. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1934 "2021-01-20T14:08:21Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I expect that those 2,500 finance jobs that moved out of the UK are high-paying ones, with salaries in six or seven figures. Not necessarily, but certainly high five-figures at least, and well above the average salary. The bigger issue, as already indicated above, is that London’s dominance as a financial centre was to a large degree a matter of inertia. Once companies had a compelling reason to move elsewhere, that inertia - which was the work of _centuries_ - was gone for good. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1935 "2021-01-20T14:19:17Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Once companies had a compelling reason to move elsewhere, that inertia - which was the work of _centuries_ - was gone for good. Yes, within a few years London will no longer be the financial hub of Europe, and it never will be again. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1936 "2021-01-20T14:41:30Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Yes, within a few years London will no longer be the financial hub of Europe, and it never will be again. You may think you’re being hyperbolic. But the fact remains that London’s status as a financial hub is greatly diminished and will be for the foreseeable future, and that there is now an impetus for there not to even _be_ a “financial hub of Europe”. In a global market, why do firms even have to have their headquarters all in the same place? They did it because that’s the way it was always done. And now it will be done differently. Firms have scattered to Paris, Dublin, Frankfurt, Luxembourg, Berlin and so forth and are doing business differently now (and that’s before the pandemic demonstrated how remote working for entire organisations was practicable). London will still be a strong financial centre but it will be weaker than it was, and with it the amount of influence Britain has in setting the standards for the European and global financial sectors is also weakened. So while I enjoy the Leavers’ “If there aren’t roving cannibal gangs raping and pillaging through the countryside, Brexit was fine” argument as much as the next guy, the fact remains that London’s financial sector has taken a serious hit, just as its cultural, educational, healthcare, manufacturing, agricultural and various other sectors have. And if you don’t understand why the concept of London as the indisputable financial hub of Europe was important, I can’t really help you. But at least we got some blue passports out of it. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1937 "2021-01-20T14:57:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You may think you’re being hyperbolic. I was actually being completely serious, not sarcastic or hyperbolic. Sorry if it came across that way. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1938 "2021-01-20T15:05:40Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > I was actually being completely serious, not sarcastic or hyperbolic. Sorry if it came across that way. Ah. My apologies for the misinterpretation. ---
**Author:** ![its\_the\_daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bb73d2/32.png) [@its\_the\_daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/its_the_daddy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1939 "2021-01-20T15:25:02Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But at least we got some blue passports out of it. Not strictly true! [New blue British passport rollout to begin in March - BBC News](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018) Some important quotes: _“The UK was never formally compelled to change the colour of its passport in the 1980s but did so with other member states.”_ _“The blue passports will be made by Gemalto, owned by French firm Thales. However, they will be personalised with the holder’s details in the UK.”_ _“In Europe, people from Iceland, **Croatia** and Bosnia and Herzegovina carry blue passports, while it is a popular colour in central and south America - including in Argentina, Brazil, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Uruguay and Venezuela.”_ So ‘blue passports’ was another Brexit lie: we could have had them all along, but chose to change to burgundy! ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1940 "2021-01-20T15:27:56Z")
Had there been a semblance of an industrial policy aiming to rebalance the economy so that finance isn’t the biggest egg in the basket, it might not have been so bad. But that would take time, as well as more imagination and forward thinking than this lot can muster. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1941 "2021-01-20T16:50:53Z")
I am curious about what is at stake here. How much is the UK will lose if the EU builds up the same capability. It says here that the UK Financial Services contributes £75Billion in Tax revenue. I thought it was more. Nonetheless, it is a golden egg. > **[Total tax contribution of UK financial services.](https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/supporting-businesses/economic-research/research-publications/total-tax-contribution-of-uk-financial-services)** > > Our annual survey of the total tax contribution made by UK financial services finds that the sector contributed £75.6bn in taxes in the year to March 2020 For comparision the NHS costs about £130Billion > **[Spending on the NHS in England - Full Fact](https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/)** > > How much will the government spend on health in England over the next few years? So my question is how much of this financial services can the EU capture from the UK over the next few years? It is fairly ironic that the EU should start building this capability. It has long been a bone of contention between the UK and the EU, during its membership, that there were proposals by some EU states to introduce a financial transaction tax to help pay for the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis. That would unfairly affect the UK financial services sector and the UK would use its veto. > **[European Union financial transaction tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_financial_transaction_tax)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > The European Union financial transaction tax (EU FTT) is a proposal made by the European Commission to introduce a financial transaction tax (FTT) within some of the member states of the European Union (EU). > The proposed EU financial transaction tax would be separate from a bank levy, or a resolution levy, which some governments are proposing to impose on banks to insure them against the costs of any future bailouts. It was initially claimed t... Maybe the EU is going to take financial services seriously. It says here that 25% of the Financal Services business in the UK is with the EU. I hope the UK government has a cunning plan to mitigate that potential loss of business and tax revenue. Quite apart from the tax revenue, the sector employs a million people in the UK. > **[UK–EU future relationship: financial services | Institute for Government](https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/article/explainer/uk-eu-future-relationship-financial-services)** > > Does the financial services sector rely on the EU? However, nothing is going to happen overnight. It will be a slow puncture. The big threat to the UK ecomomy is the lockdown and massive debt pile the country has accumulated in the last year. The only way out of that is to go for growth once we come out of lockdown. The EU threat to the UK Financial Services sector requires a cunning plan to mitigate its effects. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1942 "2021-01-20T17:25:46Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > However, nothing is going to happen overnight. It will be a slow puncture. This slow puncture is a popular idea here. I stick to my prediction that Boris will not last January. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1943 "2021-01-20T17:27:40Z")
“Industry policy”? Are you sure you are talking about the UK? That shit sounds more like the USSR. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799.md?page=96) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799.md?page=98)