# What will US do w surplus a/c carriers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223 "2009-04-24T15:24:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/21 "2009-04-26T02:17:03Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Speaking of Goa, if you want an aircraft carrier that seems like a [good place to go](http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=21.383233,72.177515&spn=0.019301,0.028281&t=k&om=1) That ship was the NAel. Minas Gerais (ex-HMAS Vengeance, ex-HMS Vengeance). It saw service in three navies going back to WWII. [Link.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAeL_Minas_Gerais) [Another link.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vengeance_(R71)) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/22 "2009-04-26T02:27:12Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > The super carriers have a projected life of 50 years. I doubt we will see any new ships laid down with the present administration. So I would doubt plans will be made up for maybe 8 years. Well, the older Nimitz class carriers still need to be replaced - they’re pretty old. And I don’t think Obama wants to see Newport News Shipbuilding go out of business, especially since Virginia is still considered a swing state. Those carriers will be built. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/23 "2009-04-26T04:40:57Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Well, the older Nimitz class carriers still need to be replaced - they’re pretty old. And I don’t think Obama wants to see \*\*Newport News Shipbuilding go out of business, \*\*especially since Virginia is still considered a swing state. > > Those carriers will be built. Ya know you may be right. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/24 "2009-04-26T22:14:31Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Well, the older Nimitz class carriers still need to be replaced - they’re pretty old. And I don’t think Obama wants to see Newport News Shipbuilding go out of business, especially since Virginia is still considered a swing state. > > Those carriers will be built. None of the Nimitz class ships are due to be retired in the next decade. Hell, the Enterprise hasn’t been retired yet and she’s almost 50 years old(and a lot of people would argue she needs to be retired). ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/25 "2009-04-26T22:27:44Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Speaking of Goa, if you want an aircraft carrier that seems like a [good place to go](http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=21.383233,72.177515&spn=0.019301,0.028281&t=k&om=1) Thats not Goa, it’s Alang in the Indian state of Gujurat. it’s about 1500 km from Goa and Goa is a tourist state with clean beaches (at least by Indian standards). They don’t break up ships anywhere near Goa. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/26 "2009-04-27T01:50:21Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > None of the Nimitz class ships are due to be retired in the next decade. > > Hell, the Enterprise hasn’t been retired yet and she’s almost 50 years old(and a lot of people would argue she needs to be retired). It takes a while to build a carrier, you know. Even with modular techniques it takes a few years. So the planning for this is indeed going on as we speak. The lead ship of the _Gerald R. Ford_ class is being laid down this year, and it will replace the _Enterprise_ when it joins the fleet. Follow on ships in this class will replace _Nimitz_, _Ike_ and so on. Even with this rate of replacement, we will likely have a ten-carrier Navy by 2040 rather than the eleven carriers we sail today. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/27 "2009-04-27T02:06:44Z")
In fact, Secretary Gates made a budget announcement a couple weeks ago that echo **Mr. Moto** ’s points very closely. " The healthy margin of dominance at sea provided by America’s existing battle fleet makes it possible and prudent to slow production of several major surface combatants and other maritime programs. • We will shift the Navy Aircraft Carrier program to a five-year build cycle placing it on a more fiscally sustainable path. This will result in 10 carriers after 2040." > **[U.S. Department of Defense](https://www.defense.gov/)** > > The Department of Defense is America's largest government agency. With our military tracing its roots back to pre-Revolutionary times, the department has grown and evolved with our nation. We aren’t going to stop building carriers. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/28 "2009-04-27T13:56:46Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > [World steel production](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_production_by_country#cite_note-0) is well over a billion tons a year. The U.S. alone produces enough steel every year to build a thousand aircraft carriers. So I suppose there is little reason to conserve every scrap of the stuff. A thousandth of the annual steel output of the U.S. still seems like a great deal of steel to me. Heck, a thousandth part of any annual U.S. domestic output (whether steel, wheat, etc.) of the U.S. seems like a lot to me. Expanding this to the whole U.S. economy, one-thousandth part of the U.S. GDP is over $14 billion. It just seems like a complete waste of steel to me. I’ve had the same thought every time I hear that a ship is being scuttled at sea. There have to be cheaper and more appropriate materials that could be used for artificial reefs, like rock, concrete, etc. And with the more recent focus on removing hazardous materials from a ship prior to sinking, I don’t see that it would take much more effort to cut up a ship and recycle the steel. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/29 "2009-04-27T15:30:00Z")
Well, it’s not an all or nothing thing - I did a UNITAS cruise on the _Moosbrugger_ in 1996, and she was scrapped. You might have shaved with a piece of her this morning. [This is one of the last pictures of her.](http://www.pbase.com/pinemikey/image/65909257) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/30 "2009-04-27T16:14:06Z")
I know one of the Moosbrugger grandsons - he’s very proud of the family’s Navy history. His license plate is that ship’s Navy List registry number. The British have sold aircraft carriers to other, friendly countries, [INS Viraat - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Viraat), as have the French, [Brazilian aircraft carrier São Paulo - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAe_S%C3%A3o_Paulo), the Australians and the Russians, [Chinese aircraft carrier programme - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Chinese_aircraft_carrier). Don’t think the U.S. ever has, or ever will. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/31 "2009-04-27T21:01:21Z")
I’ve always wondered if one could buy one, tow it off shore, anchor it, and plant crops on the flight deck. Sort of a house boat gone very very large? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/32 "2009-04-28T04:04:30Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > I’ve always wondered if one could buy one, tow it off shore, anchor it, and plant crops on the flight deck. Sort of a house boat gone very very large? If the nearby nation doesn’t mind, it don’t see why not. Just be aware that if you’re going to have anything resembling utilities, there’s gotta be a crew of some size to operate and maintain that equipment. Even attaching to shore utilities is only going to lessen this to some degree, and that’s where you can find them. You did imply someone living on this thing, and not just using it as a giant planter. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/33 "2009-04-28T04:05:14Z")
The only reason the Enterprise is still around is because of all the reactors she has. But, alas, they will be decommissioning her in 2012/2013 and to be replaced by the Ford in 2015. [http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/04/navy\_enterprise\_040509w/](http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/04/navy_enterprise_040509w/) That Enterprise is one old ship. A lot of things have been updated in the Navy’s fleet since then and the cost to retrofit can be extremely high if not impossible on some ships. Also, there is metal fatigue and believe it or not ships spring leaks and cracks develop that have to be maintained. Eventually, the metal is so fatigued that it’s a structural concern. I had an EMO that was on the Enterprise when she was a sonar tech and when they removed the flooring on the ship in some of the passageways they could see into the hangar bay! It had just rusted out beneath them. As far recycling the steel, that’s a lot of steel to cut down, and you’ll need a place to eventually dry dock the ship as you cut it up. Labor is very expensive in this country so it would be a diminishing return the longer it took to cut it up. You will probaby make more money in the log run as a museum or as an artificial reef. I know a lot of the states on the Southern seaboard will “fight” over who gets the next ship as its an attraction for scuba divers. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/34 "2009-04-28T14:54:21Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > It takes a while to build a carrier, you know. Even with modular techniques it takes a few years. So the planning for this is indeed going on as we speak. > > The lead ship of the _Gerald R. Ford_ class is being laid down this year, and it will replace the _Enterprise_ when it joins the fleet. Follow on ships in this class will replace _Nimitz_, _Ike_ and so on. > > Even with this rate of replacement, we will likely have a ten-carrier Navy by 2040 rather than the eleven carriers we sail today. Northrop Grumman Newport News (NGNN) is very far along in the planning of the first carrier in this new class. Our company is one of the sub-contractors, and we’re finishing up vibration, shock and EMI testing on equipment that will be installed in systems onboard the ship. We are contracted with NGNN to deliver quite a bit of stuff before the end of this fiscal year. I hadn’t heard that these will be Gerald Ford class (not doubting you, though, **Mr. Moto** ) - everyone we deal with, including the yard, calls it CVN-21 (as in 21st Century Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/35 "2009-04-28T16:33:42Z")
[Webpage from Newport News Shipbuilding for the program.](http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/cvn21/index.html) CVN-78 - USS Gerald R. Ford. I’m not a fan of this, personally. I liked President Ford but I think capital ships should be named after large things and not just every president we have. Nobody would propose a USS Nixon - yet he was a naval officer too. This would probably have eliminated the George H.W. Bush as well. I have no particular issue with that. Same with the USS Jimmy Carter. The USS Ronald Reagan was different, just as the Truman was different - these were consequential presidents that had an outsized impact on the world. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/36 "2009-04-28T17:07:01Z")
Well, the USS _Jimmy Carter_ is a submarine, but I agree with you in principle: [USS Jimmy Carter - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uss_Jimmy_Carter) I think it was a serious mistake to name supercarriers after _relatively_ obscure members of Congress like John Stennis and Carl Vinson: [USS John C. Stennis - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_Stennis), [USS Carl Vinson - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Carl_Vinson_(CVN-70)). There’s no way, in terms of national significance, that those gentlemen were in the same league as George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, etc. But there’s not much consistency to the Navy’s naming practices anymore, and politics has certainly been known to rear its ugly head. I wouldn’t mind seeing supercarriers named after FDR, John Adams and Chester Arthur, given their importance re: naval affairs in their day, but I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/37 "2009-04-28T18:45:19Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > But there’s not much consistency to the Navy’s naming practices anymore… If by anymore you mean the last forty years at least. The _Ticonderoga_ class ships were all named after battles except for the _USS Thomas S. Gates_. The 688 boats were all named for cities except for the _USS Hyman Rickover_. The 637 boats were named for fish - except for three named for powerful politicians. The Seawolf class has no consistency at all among the three boats in it. The Virginia class was shaping up to be named after states until someone got the bright idea to name one of them _USS John Warner_. Now, I’m not opposed to the notion of that name, but I think it could have been applied to a destroyer - especially as there was already a ship of that class honoring Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/38 "2009-04-28T19:58:34Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Now, I’m not opposed to the notion of that name, but I think it could have been applied to a destroyer - especially as there was already a ship of that class honoring Virginia. Sorry. Boat of that class. I wanted to correct that before my bubblehead brother got on my case. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/39 "2009-04-29T03:01:19Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Sorry. Boat of that class. I wanted to correct that before my bubblehead brother got on my case. > > 😉 No problem! 🙂 While submarines are usually referred to as “boats,” they are also referred to as “ships,” especially in formal communications. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223/40 "2009-04-29T04:58:08Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > …The Virginia class was shaping up to be named after states until someone got the bright idea to name one of them _USS John Warner_. Now, I’m not opposed to the notion of that name, but I think it could have been applied to a destroyer - especially as there was already a ship of that class honoring Virginia. Better yet, name a _Virginia_-class submarine after the USS _Monitor_! [http://clevelandcivilwarroundtable.com/monitor/press\_release.htm](http://clevelandcivilwarroundtable.com/monitor/press_release.htm) [http://clevelandcivilwarroundtable.com/honor\_the\_monitor.htm](http://clevelandcivilwarroundtable.com/honor_the_monitor.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-us-do-w-surplus-a-c-carriers/494223.md?page=3)