# What Wine will you be drinking tonight? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** wine\ **Created:** [July 31, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948 "2011-07-31T19:07:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/21 "2011-08-02T16:57:46Z")
I had a glass of Hook & Ladder RRV Pinot Noir with dinner last night and enjoyed it so much, I’m running over to the winery at lunch time to pick up a couple of bottles, taste, and maybe indulge in a couple more. It’s a very nice pinot for the price. Nicely balanced, not too lush, not too lean, with lots of berry and the tiniest hints of vanilla. Super easy drinking and just perfect for a mid-week summer’s night. So unless I taste and purchase something else, I’m fairly certain that that is what will be in my glass this evening. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/22 "2011-08-02T18:20:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > …With dinner, I’m thinking a nice Pinot Noir, and my favorite value Pinot these days is **Talbot Kail Hart** – about $15 at Safeway. The grapes are from the **Sleepy Hollow Vineyard** in the **Santa Lucia Highlands** , where some of the best Chardonnay and Pinot Noir originates… Didn’t fully read your OP, otherwise I’d have mentioned this earlier. If you like [Talbott’](http://www.talbottvineyards.com/Wine-Shop)s Kali Hart Pinot, and you like Chardonnay, you’ll love his Sleepy Hollow and especially his Diamond T Chards. I’m not a big fan of his Case Pinot or Logan Pinots (most of the wines are named after his kids), so haven’t tried the Kali Hart. Perhaps they’ve improved in the few years since I’ve tried them, or it may be a case of _de gustibus_, I don’t know. The Diamond T chardonnay though, is outstanding. Probably my favorite U.S. Chardonnay not named Stony Hill or Kalin. And at $40 a bottle, it had better be good. Browsing around the website, it looks like he’s doing a reserve bottling from Diamond T for his $75 Cuvee Audrey. (For cryin’ out loud, the vineyard’s only 14 acres. What’s next: doing a reserve wine from each vineyard row?) Hopefully doing so doesn’t dramatically lower the quality of his lower priced wine. Didn’t know they also planted it in Pinot; I’d thought the vineyard was Chard only. Oh well, at $75 it can wait. Oh, and keeping in the spirit of the thread, tonight’s wine will be some 2009 Moscato D’ Asti with vegetarian stir-fry. Possibly the most “fun” type of wine that exists. May even throw a few ice cubes in it, if the heat index persists in staying over 110. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/23 "2011-08-02T19:16:11Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Didn’t fully read your OP, otherwise I’d have mentioned this earlier. If you like [Talbott’](http://www.talbottvineyards.com/Wine-Shop)s Kali Hart Pinot, and you like Chardonnay, you’ll love his Sleepy Hollow and especially his Diamond T Chards. I’m not a big fan of his Case Pinot or Logan Pinots (most of the wines are named after his kids), so haven’t tried the Kali Hart. Perhaps they’ve improved in the few years since I’ve tried them, or it may be a case of _de gustibus_, I don’t know. > > The Diamond T chardonnay though, is outstanding. Probably my favorite U.S. Chardonnay not named Stony Hill or Kalin. And at $40 a bottle, it had better be good. Browsing around the website, it looks like he’s doing a reserve bottling from Diamond T for his $75 Cuvee Audrey. (For cryin’ out loud, the vineyard’s only 14 acres. What’s next: doing a reserve wine from each vineyard row?) Hopefully doing so doesn’t dramatically lower the quality of his lower priced wine. Didn’t know they also planted it in Pinot; I’d thought the vineyard was Chard only. Oh well, at $75 it can wait. Yep, I’m a regular visitor of their tasting room in Carmel Valley, so I’m very familiar with all their wines. The first time I had the Diamond T Chard, it knocked my sock off. The Cuvee Audrey is beyond wonderful. Sorry you don’t like the other Pinots, but I like them a lot, so my recommendation of the Kali Hart may not mean too much to your palate. And for those not familiar with Talbot wines, it’s the same guy who sells the ties. **psycat90** : What’s the price point for that Pinot? I’m always interested in trying new wines of that varietal. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/24 "2011-08-02T19:52:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Love the SA wines. Some really good values. And it’s good to explore beyond Malbec, too. The Maipe Reserve Cabernet turned out to be a solid wine at a good value ($12). It is less oaky slightly less spicy, but with more fruit and leather/tobacco than most American counterparts. And I agree as a general rule that South American wines can be great values. ---
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/25 "2011-08-02T20:15:08Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace;14092696 **psycat90** : What’s the price point for that Pinot? I’m always interested in trying new wines of that varietal.[/QUOTE] It’s 25 bucks at the winery (I do get an industry discount, so it ends up costing me 17 bucks a bottle, which fits perfectly with its ‘easy drinking’ status), so I’d assume it’s right around $25-$30 at BevMo, etc. On the wine list at the restaurant I dined at last night, bottle price was $42, and glass price was $10, which I thought was fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/26 "2011-08-03T01:32:16Z")
Oh wow. I did a good job botching that coding earlier. Whoops! And as it turns out, there is another varietal swirling around in my glass tonight. I came home to find my bridegroom thoroughly enjoying a glass of wine and suggesting I pour myself one before he emptied the bottle. 😉 So tonight I’m drinking Stephen & Walker’s DCV Petite Sirah. It’s a very good wine. Big, dark, purple and inky. These are the kinds of wine my husband loves. Smooth but definitely noticeable tannins. Some woody characteristics mingled with plum and blackberry and a nice long finish. It’s very good, but it’s not what I personally would pull out for sipping by itself on a Tuesday night. I feel like I need a steak. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/27 "2011-08-03T01:50:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Too bad Americans have this misperception that all Riesling is really sweet… Or that sweet wine is somehow inferior. I’ve banged my head against that wall so many times when I used to sell fine wines for a living. The most important thing in a wine is balance, and pretty much all quality Rieslings have that in spades. If you are unsure about which Rieslings to buy, my general rule of thumb is to trust pretty much anything in Terry Thiese’s catalogs. There isn’t anybody on Earth that’s tried and written about German Rieslings as much as this guy. Catalog here (pdf): [http://www.skurnikwines.com/msw/documents/MSW\_TerryTheise\_Germany\_2011.pdf](http://www.skurnikwines.com/msw/documents/MSW_TerryTheise_Germany_2011.pdf) Read it, live it, love it. My favorite German Riesling producers are Donnhoff, Selbach-Oester, Merkelbach, Theo Minges and Joh. Jos. Christoffel. There are so many quality Rieslings produced in Germany its ridiculous. I tend to lean towards Mosel/Saar/Ruwer Reislings because the shale in the soils there imparts such a wonderful minerality to the wines…which I love. The acidity in these wines is super abundant and really prevents these wines from being cloying in any way. But tonight I had yet another glass of Catena Malbec, an Argentinian producer. I cannot say enough good things about Catena. Their wines are fairly priced and absolutely wonderful. They make a great Cab and an excellent Chardonnay as well. Website here: [http://www.catenawines.com/](http://www.catenawines.com/) ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/28 "2011-08-03T16:49:15Z")
[Torres Viña Esmeralda](http://www.waitrosewine.com/230201489/Product.aspx). My go to mid week white white- its a moscatel/gewurztraminer blend. Low alcohol, nice flavour, perfect for a glass of wine after work. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/29 "2011-08-03T16:56:52Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > The most important thing in a wine is balance, and pretty much all quality Rieslings have that in spades. If you are unsure about which Rieslings to buy, my general rule of thumb is to trust pretty much anything in Terry Thiese’s catalogs. There isn’t anybody on Earth that’s tried and written about German Rieslings as much as this guy. Catalog here (pdf): [http://www.skurnikwines.com/msw/documents/MSW\_TerryTheise\_Germany\_2011.pdf](http://www.skurnikwines.com/msw/documents/MSW_TerryTheise_Germany_2011.pdf) > > Read it, live it, love it. My favorite German Riesling producers are Donnhoff, Selbach-Oester, Merkelbach, Theo Minges and Joh. Jos. Christoffel. > > There are so many quality Rieslings produced in Germany its ridiculous. I tend to lean towards Mosel/Saar/Ruwer Reislings because the shale in the soils there imparts such a wonderful minerality to the wines…which I love. The acidity in these wines is super abundant and really prevents these wines from being cloying in any way. I couldn’t agree more. A very big +1 to buying anything that has Terry Theise’s importer label on the back. I’ve discovered a few new-to-me German producers (Kerpen, Kurt Darting), just from trusting his label. [Hopefully the new overpass the Palatinate government insists on building in the area](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/how-a-bridge-divided-the-mosel-valley-1988889.html), won’t completely screw up the light for vineyards like the Wurzgarten pictured on your linked catalog. Or Erdener Pralat. Grrrrr. I also like your list of producers. Many of my favorites too, particularly Donnhof, although he’s just so damned expensive these days. But _soooo_ good… Merklebach’s Wurzgarten is often among the finest of the vintage. Also, you can usually find his stuff, and Minges’ for a bit less than some of the other quality producers. (And I’d add/ask your opinions of: [Willi Schaefer](http://www.skurnikwines.com/prospects.cgi?rm=view_prospect_detail&prospect_id=320), [Reinhold Haart](http://www.haart.de/en_index.php), [Dr. Loosen](http://www.drloosen.com/index.php), and of course, [J.J. Prum](http://www.germanwine.net/estates/pruemjj/pruemjj.htm)? (another in the “Oh my God, what happened to the prices?” category) I’ll have to try some Catena, next time I’m in the wine shop. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/30 "2011-08-03T18:08:04Z")
Dr Loosen is yum! I’ll let the educated palates tell you why, I just know I like it. ---
**Author:** ![fjs1fs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@fjs1fs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fjs1fs)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/31 "2011-08-03T20:24:14Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I’ve only tried a few of them. Most, I guess, never make it out the area or the Northeast. As a whole, I remember them being quite nice, and of surprising quality. Decent quality/price ratio and I remember saying at the time that I’d buy some of them again. I desperately want to make it up to the Finger Lakes to go tasting, and also because it’s supposed to be really pretty. [This site](http://www.fingerlakes.org/about-the-region/interactive-map), looks like a pretty good resource for maps and contact info. > > The Semi-Dry Riesling from Dr. Konstantin Frank, in particular, had some nice minerality with lime flavors, and medium weight (for Riesling.) I don’t remember the vintage. They don’t taste like Mosel-Saar-Ruwer Rieslings, but then again, neither does anyone else’s. I’d compare them to Alsatian Rieslings from a good producer, with a bit of residual sugar, so akin to some of Domaine Schleret’s stuff. I don’t mind RS, especially in Riesling, but YMMV. I’ve no idea what Frank’s vineyards are supposed to taste like, so I’ve no idea of their typicity. It was tasty enough to make me want to try more from the area. > > Right now, our local gourmet supermarket is running a sale on Chateau Ste. Michelle’s “Eroica” Riesling at $15. Provided you like RS—it tastes quite sweet, despite the 1.6% RS, per its .pdf [fact sheet here](http://www.ste-michelle.com/files/FileResource/7091/CSM_FS_09_Eroica.pdf)—it is a delicious wine. Not light bodied at all, rather it tastes like a good Spatlese/overripe Kabinett from a good Pfalz or Nahe producer, like maybe Kurt Darting. At $15, it is fantastic, and solves my ‘what to have with Thai food’ conundrums. > > The RS amount and perception is really funny. From Eroica’s fact sheets, (which you can find [here](http://www.eroicawine.com/wines_eroica.php)) the RS varies vintage to vintage from 1.6-2.1%. As I wrote above, it tastes to me noticeably sweet. Yet, from [wiki’s description of RS and German wine grape ripeness classifications](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_wine_classification), that level of RS would normally have an indication of “halbtrocken” or “feinherb”. Non-halbtrocken Kabinett and Spatlese have RS’s between 3-6%, according to that chart. I’m not sure what the actual level of RS is in a typical Spatlese, say from [Dr. Loosen’s Wehlener Sonnenuhr](http://www.drloosen.com/PDFs/DrLoosenWSSpatlese2009Talker.pdf). But I’ve had halbtrockens—[Selbach-Oster released a delicious one this year from Zeltinger Himmelreich](http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2011/07/riesling-report-selbach-oster-2009-zeltinger-himmelreich-riesling-kabinett-halbtrocken.html)—and they tasted less sweet to me than the Eroica. I just need to get them side-by-side and blind, I guess. > > Would that winemaker’s provided as much info on their labels, as say [Ridge Vineyards does.](http://www.ridgewine.com/acrobat/08ZLS1-L.pdf) > > (FWIW, most of the links in this post are .pdfs.) Gray Ghost, I would like to learn more about this “RS” rating. I’ve never heard of it. I’m a huge riesling fan, in fact it’s the only wine I regularly drink. I only like Real German Rieslings–usually only Ausleses, and some Spatleses. The American, Austrian and French Rieslings are always way too dry. Of the Germans, JJ Pruhm is probably the best I’ve had, but it is very expensive–like $60 a bottle. Graf’s Auslese is great, for about $22. A couple of yrs back we had a real find at about $12 a bottle–it was “KURT HAIN”, but from what I understand there’s no more of it (we bought the last two cases from the liquor store near us in NJ). I’m on an endless quest for the next FIND, the next delicious SWEET German riesling in the $15 range. Is it out there? Perhaps there’s somewhere i can go to look for wines with high RS ratings. I’ll start googling, but if you can save me some time, awesome! Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Bosstrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Bosstrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstrain)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/32 "2011-08-03T20:27:38Z")
Mogen David 🙂 say what you like, but I don’t go for anything else except Corona and hard liquor (I usually want my drink to bite me back so I never mix with ice) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![fjs1fs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@fjs1fs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fjs1fs)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/33 "2011-08-03T20:32:45Z")
I missed the edit window, but realize that I should have read the whole thread. FoisGrasisEvil, your post, combined with those of Gray Ghost, will prove quite helpful. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/34 "2011-08-03T22:20:25Z")
I never drink… wine. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/35 "2011-08-03T22:32:20Z")
> [@fjs1fs](#): > > Gray Ghost, I would like to learn more about this “RS” rating. I’ve never heard of it. I’m a huge riesling fan, in fact it’s the only wine I regularly drink. I only like Real German Rieslings–usually only Ausleses, and some Spatleses. The American, Austrian and French Rieslings are always way too dry. Of the Germans, JJ Pruhm is probably the best I’ve had, but it is very expensive–like $60 a bottle. Graf’s Auslese is great, for about $22. A couple of yrs back we had a real find at about $12 a bottle–it was “KURT HAIN”, but from what I understand there’s no more of it (we bought the last two cases from the liquor store near us in NJ). I’m on an endless quest for the next FIND, the next delicious SWEET German riesling in the $15 range. Is it out there? Perhaps there’s somewhere i can go to look for wines with high RS ratings. I’ll start googling, but if you can save me some time, awesome! Thanks! RS is just an abbreviation for Residual Sugar, sorry. It isn’t an official rating or grade for wine. German (and Austrian) Rieslings are rated according to the level of sugar within the grapes at harvest. In Germany, this is known as the [Prädikatswein](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_wine_classification) designations. Not all of this sugar is fermented to alcohol. If it is fermented to dryness—which seems to be quite the trend in Germany—and left there, then the word “Trocken” (dry) is added to the label. If it’s fermented to almost dry, then the word “Halbtrocken” (half-dry) can be added. You’ll sometimes see “Feinherb” on the label, AIUI this means about the same thing as halbtrocken, but there’s no law constraining its use. Which is unusual for Germans. As far as sweet rieslings go, Germany doesn’t have the monopoly. I’d recommend the Eroica riesling I’ve mentioned before in the thread, as well as the wines of [Zind-Humbrecht](http://www.zindhumbrecht.com/) in Alsace. Those of [Domaine Weinbach](http://www.domaineweinbach.com/en/index.htm) can also be noticeably sweet (and fantastic, and expensive.) Conversely, I’d avoid Trimbach’s rieslings, if I were you. As well as most of the ones from Australia. (Though they can be great, most of the ones I’ve had have been quite dry.) Avoid also, the Pacific Rim line of U.S. riesling. Unless they’ve really changed it, it’s still quite dry. As far as inexpensive, sweet Rieslings, I’ve had good luck with Kurt Darting’s wines, [Pfeffingen](http://www.pfeffingen.de/), [Dr. Pauly-Bergweiler](http://www.pauly-bergweiler.com/) as well as those from [Schmitt-Sohne](http://www.schmitt-soehne.com). It looks like Schmitt Sohne has quite a few more properties now, including Schloss Vollrads. (Unfortunately, that’s probably related to the suicide of the Graf. Which was 15 years ago. Jeez, time flies.) You certainly couldn’t ask for much better land in the Rheingau. The Sohne “Blue” line of Rieslings has a Spatlese at my local liquor store for $9. At that price, I’d think it’s worth a gamble. You’re correct in sticking with the Auslesen and Spatlesen if that’s what you know you like. I’ve don’t remember trying Kurt Hain’s but Reinhold Haart also makes wine from Piesport, and I can’t recommend him highly enough. (Both Goldtropfchen and Domherr are great vineyards there—avoid Michelsburg, as it’s a Grosslage. Though Selbach-Oster’s might be worth a try? And, as a grosslage, it’d be inexpensive.) [Reuscher-Haart](http://www.skurnikwines.com/prospects.cgi?rm=view_prospect_detail&prospect_id=305) is a Terry Theise client and they also make Piesport wine. Both the [Vereinigte Hospitien](http://weingut.vereinigtehospitien.de/index.php?lang=1) and [Reichsgraf von Kesselstatt](http://www.kesselstatt.com/cgi-bin/cms) offer lesser-priced versions of very good MSR wines. It was a Kesselstatt Kaseler Nies’chen Kabinett that got me started in Germany, about 15 years ago. My usual advice is to go to a local wineshop you trust, tell the staff your requirements, and see what they steer you to. You should easily be able to find a tasty spatlese for $15. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/36 "2011-08-04T01:45:23Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I couldn’t agree more. A very big +1 to buying anything that has Terry Theise’s importer label on the back. I’ve discovered a few new-to-me German producers (Kerpen, Kurt Darting), just from trusting his label. [Hopefully the new overpass the Palatinate government insists on building in the area](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/how-a-bridge-divided-the-mosel-valley-1988889.html), won’t completely screw up the light for vineyards like the Wurzgarten pictured on your linked catalog. Or Erdener Pralat. Grrrrr. > > I also like your list of producers. Many of my favorites too, particularly Donnhof, although he’s just so damned expensive these days. But _soooo_ good… Merklebach’s Wurzgarten is often among the finest of the vintage. Also, you can usually find his stuff, and Minges’ for a bit less than some of the other quality producers. (And I’d add/ask your opinions of: [Willi Schaefer](http://www.skurnikwines.com/prospects.cgi?rm=view_prospect_detail&prospect_id=320), [Reinhold Haart](http://www.haart.de/en_index.php), [Dr. Loosen](http://www.drloosen.com/index.php), and of course, [J.J. Prum](http://www.germanwine.net/estates/pruemjj/pruemjj.htm)? (another in the “Oh my God, what happened to the prices?” category) > > I’ll have to try some Catena, next time I’m in the wine shop. I’ve had good experiences with Dr Loosen…and Minges…and JJ Prum. I am with you…Donnhoff to me is the bastion of Riesling that all others are judged by, IMO. Damn though, like you say, they are expensive. I’ve had the opportunity in the recent past to consume a 1994 Hermmanshohlle that was just…mind blowing, and my favorite, a 1992 Oberhauser Brucke that just transported me to another planet, Scotty. Donnhoff’s wines are so readily accessible when young but age so..DAMN…WELL! And boy are they not cheap. I haven’t had one in years. On my budget these days without the free tastings my old wine sales job provided, I am relegated to such things as Relax Riesling (which, given the under $10 price is a PERFECT example of a simple Mosel Riesling…I actually quite like it for everyday quaffing)…I just don’t have the exposure to OTHER cheap Rieslings that are of equal or better quality in that price range anymore (and the Euro slaying the dollar doesn’t help either). And do please get yourself a bottle of the most recent vintage of Catena Malbec, to start. Its a wonderful red for the money, around $20/btl last I checked. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/37 "2011-08-04T07:52:16Z")
Can the wine buffs explain to me why I don’t like rosé wines? I like the full spectrum of red and white- from full bodied well oaked reds to Eisweins- I just can’t stand rosé/blush/pink wines. They all taste horrible to me. What is the something I’m missing? I’ve never loved tannic wines- but we’ve just come back from a 2 week holiday near Cahors, and I’ve totally changed my opinion- it just took a few vineyard visits and experimentation. Maybe if you can tell me why I don’t like the pink wines, I can find some that I’ll like more. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/38 "2011-08-04T12:26:57Z")
Hogue makes a decent and CHEAP sweet reisling. I find it a little too cloying to be a good wine, but at something like $6 a bottle around here on sale, it makes a fine sweet white for someone who likes that end of the spectrum (which sometimes, I do). ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/39 "2011-08-04T14:02:11Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > Can the wine buffs explain to me why I don’t like rosé wines? > > I like the full spectrum of red and white- from full bodied well oaked reds to Eisweins- I just can’t stand rosé/blush/pink wines. > > They all taste horrible to me. > > What is the something I’m missing? > > I’ve never loved tannic wines- but we’ve just come back from a 2 week holiday near Cahors, and I’ve totally changed my opinion- it just took a few vineyard visits and experimentation. > > Maybe if you can tell me why I don’t like the pink wines, I can find some that I’ll like more. Don’t take this the wrong way, but I suspect it must be colour association. Try an experiment in a bar with some friends. You close your eyes and then sip say two whites and a rose and put them in the order you like best just from smell and taste. I suspect you may be in for a surprise. Many wine snobs cannot tell wines apart when blindfolded in tests, at the very least this test should dispell your prejudices against rose and blush wines. ---
**Author:** ![fjs1fs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@fjs1fs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fjs1fs)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948/40 "2011-08-04T14:43:09Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > RS is just an abbreviation for Residual Sugar, sorry. It isn’t an official rating or grade for wine. German (and Austrian) Rieslings are rated according to the level of sugar within the grapes at harvest. In Germany, this is known as the [Prädikatswein](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_wine_classification) designations. Not all of this sugar is fermented to alcohol. If it is fermented to dryness—which seems to be quite the trend in Germany—and left there, then the word “Trocken” (dry) is added to the label. If it’s fermented to almost dry, then the word “Halbtrocken” (half-dry) can be added. You’ll sometimes see “Feinherb” on the label, AIUI this means about the same thing as halbtrocken, but there’s no law constraining its use. Which is unusual for Germans. > > As far as sweet rieslings go, Germany doesn’t have the monopoly. I’d recommend the Eroica riesling I’ve mentioned before in the thread, as well as the wines of [Zind-Humbrecht](http://www.zindhumbrecht.com/) in Alsace. Those of [Domaine Weinbach](http://www.domaineweinbach.com/en/index.htm) can also be noticeably sweet (and fantastic, and expensive.) Conversely, I’d avoid Trimbach’s rieslings, if I were you. As well as most of the ones from Australia. (Though they can be great, most of the ones I’ve had have been quite dry.) Avoid also, the Pacific Rim line of U.S. riesling. Unless they’ve really changed it, it’s still quite dry. > > As far as inexpensive, sweet Rieslings, I’ve had good luck with Kurt Darting’s wines, [Pfeffingen](http://www.pfeffingen.de/), [Dr. Pauly-Bergweiler](http://www.pauly-bergweiler.com/) as well as those from [Schmitt-Sohne](http://www.schmitt-soehne.com). It looks like Schmitt Sohne has quite a few more properties now, including Schloss Vollrads. (Unfortunately, that’s probably related to the suicide of the Graf. Which was 15 years ago. Jeez, time flies.) You certainly couldn’t ask for much better land in the Rheingau. The Sohne “Blue” line of Rieslings has a Spatlese at my local liquor store for $9. At that price, I’d think it’s worth a gamble. > > You’re correct in sticking with the Auslesen and Spatlesen if that’s what you know you like. I’ve don’t remember trying Kurt Hain’s but Reinhold Haart also makes wine from Piesport, and I can’t recommend him highly enough. (Both Goldtropfchen and Domherr are great vineyards there—avoid Michelsburg, as it’s a Grosslage. Though Selbach-Oster’s might be worth a try? And, as a grosslage, it’d be inexpensive.) [Reuscher-Haart](http://www.skurnikwines.com/prospects.cgi?rm=view_prospect_detail&prospect_id=305) is a Terry Theise client and they also make Piesport wine. Both the [Vereinigte Hospitien](http://weingut.vereinigtehospitien.de/index.php?lang=1) and [Reichsgraf von Kesselstatt](http://www.kesselstatt.com/cgi-bin/cms) offer lesser-priced versions of very good MSR wines. It was a Kesselstatt Kaseler Nies’chen Kabinett that got me started in Germany, about 15 years ago. > > My usual advice is to go to a local wineshop you trust, tell the staff your requirements, and see what they steer you to. You should easily be able to find a tasty spatlese for $15. Thanks again, GG! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wine-will-you-be-drinking-tonight/590948.md?page=3)