# What wins car races? The car or the driver? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 13, 2019, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487 "2019-04-13T03:53:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/21 "2019-04-14T02:52:32Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Modern F1 is weighted heavily on the car these days. You could put Grojean in Hamilton’s car and he would win. Put Lewis in the Williams and he’ll probably only beat the other Williams and finish near last. > > As I type this, I’m watching qualifying. Bottas just beat Lewis for pole. Dude, spoilers! Gah! I usually dont watch qualy or the race until Sunday night! Bah! ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/22 "2019-04-14T02:54:46Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Without the pit crew, they both just sit there (says the guy on a pit crew) 😃 Without the ppl at the factory and engineers, the pit crew has nothing work on. Without sponsors, [del]nobody[/del] very few have the money to hire anybody to design and build and drive. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/23 "2019-04-14T05:14:21Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Lewis has won in a dog of a car though and lesser drivers just wouldn’t. Lewis has _never_ had a ‘dog of a car’ in his career. A McLaren prodigy, brought right into the team at one of their peaks. Jumped ship to Mercedes at the perfect time. Multiple championships. Compare that to Alonso and Button (as described above). Right car, Champion. Wrong car, also-ran. Also, see Raikkonen, Kimi. World Champion, Ferrari. Also-ran with whoever he drives for now. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/24 "2019-04-14T05:21:39Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Lewis has _never_ had a ‘dog of a car’ in his career. A McLaren prodigy, brought right into the team at one of their peaks. Jumped ship to Mercedes at the perfect time. Multiple championships. > > Compare that to Alonso and Button (as described above). Right car, Champion. Wrong car, also-ran. Also, see Raikkonen, Kimi. World Champion, Ferrari. Also-ran with whoever he drives for now. Some of those mclarens weren’t exactly top rate yet he still got wins. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/25 "2019-04-14T05:25:08Z")
Sorry. I got carried away. F1 is one of the few real ‘passions’ in my life anymore. I’ve missed maybe 2 races in the last 35 years. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/26 "2019-04-14T05:29:34Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Some of those mclarens weren’t exactly top rate yet he still got wins. Disagree. All Hamilton’s cars have been the class of the field. Not to take away from his incredible skill, but he’s had the shit from day one. Day one being from when he was about 6 years old. We should argue about this in an F1 thread. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/27 "2019-04-14T12:11:17Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Disagree. All Hamilton’s cars have been the class of the field. Not to take away from his incredible skill, but he’s had the shit from day one. Day one being from when he was about 6 years old. > > We should argue about this in an F1 thread. 😉 Simply not the case. 2009 was a dreadful car and he still managed to win. The Merc last year was not the best car and he won the championship. The Maclaren was not the best car in 2008 and he won the championship. Only the third time in the last thirty years that the champion driver has not had the champion car and was within a whisker of doing the same in 2007. He is as good as it gets and we shouldn’t be surprised that he now finds himself in a great car but everyone in the sport knows that it isn’t the car that makes him great. Everyone still knows Alonso is a great even when he was racing bad cars. ---
**Author:** ![Jet\_Jaguar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jet_jaguar/32/3562_2.png) [@Jet\_Jaguar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jet_Jaguar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/28 "2019-04-15T14:48:20Z")
For the benefit of people who aren’t familiar with the sport, it probably should be noted that F1 is unique in that for the most part, each F1 team is required to design and build its own cars (there are certain things they are allowed to buy or contract out to third parties). That’s why the team competition is called the “Constructors Championship”. This makes the series an engineering competition as much as a driver competition, and is a major reason for the performance disparity between teams. The top teams with the deepest pockets have the resources to build better cars than less well-funded teams (though even the smallest teams have budgets that would make a top NASCAR or Indycar team’s eyes water). The competitive teams also either build their own engines or are closely partnered with an engine manufacturer. A big budget is no guarantee though. Witness Toyota F1 in the 2000’s, which reportedly had one of the largest budgets in F1 yet never won a single race. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/29 "2019-04-15T20:16:18Z")
The car, the driver, and the team. All three are essential to win consistently, you cannot separate them. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/30 "2019-04-16T21:53:39Z")
I don’t follow it too closely, but iirc, in NASCAR, the cars are pretty much identical. The teams can tweak them before the race, but can’t make wholesale changes. Success is down mostly to the driver, but also the pit crew and observers. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/31 "2019-04-16T21:59:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Without the car, the driver just sits there. Nah, then you have the Daytona 500 marathon. It takes a while, and the crashes aren’t as spectacular. They also don’t film the pit stops. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/32 "2019-04-16T22:27:50Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > I don’t follow it too closely, but iirc, in NASCAR, the cars are pretty much identical. The teams can tweak them before the race, but can’t make wholesale changes. Success is down mostly to the driver, but also the pit crew and observers. Yes, but see my post #6 above. Even in NASCAR, the bigger / wealthier teams still have a distinct advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/33 "2019-04-16T23:29:26Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > The car, the driver, and the team. All three are essential to win consistently, you cannot separate them. This is the real answer. There are too many variables to say one leg is more important than the other. but, given that: In drag racing, give two competitors identical cars, and the driver with the faster reaction time will win. Second to that is keeping the car in the right lane. Deciding factor: driver In stock car racing, given identical cars and pit crews, the driver that has the better feel for how the car is performing, how the setup changes as the tires wear and the track gets hotter, who can communicate that to the pit crew, and the driver with more skill at not hitting everyone else, will win. Deciding factor: driver. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/34 "2019-04-17T01:13:14Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Disagree. All Hamilton’s cars have been the class of the field. Not to take away from his incredible skill, but he’s had the shit from day one. Day one being from when he was about 6 years old. > > We should argue about this in an F1 thread. 😉 Then you should be all over that Netflix series “Formula One: Drive To Survive”. It’s epic. And I don’t even like car racing all that much (although I like sports cars and such VERY much). ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/35 "2019-04-19T21:13:16Z")
Don’t have Netflix. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Mesquite-oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@Mesquite-oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mesquite-oh)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487/36 "2019-04-20T11:17:53Z")
Football coach Bum Phillips once said of Bear Bryant that “Bryant can take his’n and beat your’n, and then he can turn around and take your’n and beat his’n.” So could a champion driver in his car beat his rival and the rival’s car and then turn around, switch cars, then beat his rival again? Like in all sports it depends how big the gap is between the skills of the athletes and the quality of their equipment (or coaching, or quarterback, or team mates, or whatever two factors you want to compare). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-wins-car-races-the-car-or-the-driver/832487.md?page=1)