# What word describes giving someone an epithet that predates their time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 23, 2018, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967 "2018-11-23T05:19:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/1 "2018-11-23T05:19:01Z")
Hi What word describes giving someone an epithet that predates their time? I’ve come across websites equating Thomas More’s ‘Utopia’ with Marxism (not my opinion). If someone called Thomas More a Marxist, what would be a formal term to describe that? I look forward to your feedback ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/2 "2018-11-23T05:22:25Z")
proto-Marxist. You can get away with a lot of anachronism sticking a ‘proto-’ on the front. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/3 "2018-11-23T05:43:19Z")
Or the fancy French way would be to call him a Marxist avant la lettre. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/4 "2018-11-23T05:47:55Z")
Anachronism. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/5 "2018-11-23T05:50:54Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Anachronism. Yes–this is the formal term. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/6 "2018-11-23T06:02:33Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Anachronism. > [@guizot](#): > > Yes–this is the formal term. For what, exactly, in this context? The word usually refers to an error, so it might be appropriate in pointing out somebody’s mistake in the unlikely event that they were _unaware_ that Marx lived in a later era. But I thought Aspidistra nailed what the OP was really asking. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/7 "2018-11-23T06:17:22Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi > > What word describes giving someone an epithet that predates their time? > I’ve come across websites equating Thomas More’s ‘Utopia’ with Marxism (not my opinion). If someone called Thomas More a Marxist, what would be a formal term to describe that? You mean postdates, not predates. And “proto-X” works well. Or “incipient X” ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/8 "2018-11-23T13:48:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You mean postdates, not predates. And “proto-X” works well. Or “incipient X” Yes thanks Mr Dibble. That’s what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/9 "2018-11-23T14:54:05Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Anachronism. > [@guizot](#): > > Yes–this is the formal term. Certainly not. From Merriam-Webster: > [@](#): > > 1 : an error in chronology > especially : a chronological misplacing of persons, events, objects, or customs in regard to each other > found several anachronisms in the movie > 2 : a person or a thing that is chronologically out of place > especially : one from a former age that is incongruous in the present > By the time I reached my teens, the housewife was an anachronism, replaced on television by the perky, glamorous, character of That Girl, Marlo Thomas, who kept her boyfriend at bay in the interest of pursuing her acting career. > — Joyce Maynard > 3 : the state or condition of being chronologically out of place While technically More might be seen as chronologically out of place, that is not the sense in which “anachronism” is usually used. One might consider a modern proponent of the divine right of kings an anachronism, but not for someone who was an early example of a modern phenomenon. (This said, if such an example appeared in a work of fiction it would be an anachronism in the sense of an error.) I agree that proto-Marxist might be a good term for such a case. ---
**Author:** ![LynnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@LynnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LynnM)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/10 "2018-11-23T15:11:35Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi > > What word describes giving someone an epithet that predates their time? > I’ve come across websites equating Thomas More’s ‘Utopia’ with Marxism (not my opinion). If someone called Thomas More a Marxist, what would be a formal term to describe that? > I look forward to your feedback Does the rhetorical term “prolepsis” apply? —prolepsis –The anachronistic representation of something as existing before its proper or historical time, as in the precolonial United States. –The assignment of something, such as an event or name, to a time that precedes it –The use of a descriptive word in anticipation of the act or circumstances that would make it applicable – Anticipation before something starts ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/11 "2018-11-23T15:46:32Z")
> [@LynnM](#): > > Does the rhetorical term “prolepsis” apply? > > —prolepsis > –The anachronistic representation of something as existing before its proper or historical time, as in the precolonial United States. > > –The assignment of something, such as an event or name, to a time that precedes it > > –The use of a descriptive word in anticipation of the act or circumstances that would make it applicable > > – Anticipation before something starts Prolepsis is a figure of speech. You wouldn’t use it to refer to More with respect to Marxism. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/12 "2018-11-23T16:56:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Prolepsis is a figure of speech. You wouldn’t use it to refer to More with respect to Marxism. But calling More a proto-Marxist would be a prolepsis, no? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/13 "2018-11-23T17:07:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > But calling More a proto-Marxist would be a prolepsis, no? No. Why would you think that? ETA, okay, I just took in LynnM’s list. > [@](#): > > –The anachronistic representation of something as existing before its proper or historical time, as in the precolonial United States. > –The assignment of something, such as an event or name, to a time that precedes it I’ve never seen prolepsis used to mean these things. Where is that list from? ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/14 "2018-11-23T17:14:21Z")
Some words that come to mind: a nascent Marxist a precursive Marxist or a precursor to Marxism. embryonic Marxism. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/15 "2018-11-23T17:35:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > But calling More a proto-Marxist would be a prolepsis, no? No. As I said, it is a literary device. It wouldn’t be used in reference to an historical figure. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/16 "2018-11-23T18:14:33Z")
“Ur” can be used as well. The meaning sought seems to be “Ahead of it’s time” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/17 "2018-11-23T18:28:01Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > “Ur” can be used as well. > > The meaning sought seems to be “Ahead of it’s time” Not really. The meaning of “ur-” is proto-, primitive, or original. It is often used to indicate the earliest example of something. It’s from German, but when I first saw it I assumed it must refer to Ur in Sumeria, one of the oldest known cities. (It doesn’t.) You could possibly refer to More as an ur-Marxist, but that would presume there were no earlier known examples. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/18 "2018-11-23T18:41:51Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Not really. The meaning of “ur-” is proto-, primitive, or original. It is often used to indicate the earliest example of something. > > It’s from German, but when I first saw it I assumed it must refer to Ur in Sumeria, one of the oldest known cities. (It doesn’t.) > > You could possibly refer to More as an ur-Marxist, but that would presume there were no earlier known examples. I thought that about Ur too. In the OP do we know that it isn’t meant that way? I can’t tell if it’s a mistaken word choice or intentional. You don’t have to say he was “The” ur-marxist. You could be saying he was “an” ur-marxist. Is it this? “He would fit the decription of a marxist although he was born in 16xx”" ? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/19 "2018-11-23T19:04:17Z")
N/A ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967/20 "2018-11-23T23:00:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > While technically More might be seen as chronologically out of place, that is not the sense in which “anachronism” is usually used. You misunderstand. Calling Moore a “Marxist” is an anachronism. It is the word that is so described. Nobody is claiming that Moore was an anachronism. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-word-describes-giving-someone-an-epithet-that-predates-their-time/824967.md?page=2)