# What would a Bull Moose believe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2008, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392 "2008-08-18T06:40:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/1 "2008-08-18T06:40:31Z")
If the ghost of Teddy Roosevelt came and inspired a moderate Republican to restart the Progressive Party, what would their platform look like? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/2 "2008-08-18T06:43:27Z")
[QUOTE=Saint Cad] If the ghost of Teddy Roosevelt came and inspired a moderate Republican to restart the Progressive Party, what would their platform look like? [/QUOTE] He’d be a Conservative Imperialist who fights for Civil Rights and Environmental Conservation. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/3 "2008-08-18T06:58:31Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] He’d be a Conservative Imperialist who fights for Civil Rights and Environmental Conservation. [/QUOTE] But what specifically on today’s issues like abortion, illegal immigration, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/4 "2008-08-18T06:58:47Z")
He’d definitely be the strongest proponent of the Second Amendment in the country, and he’d be a big fan of hunting. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/5 "2008-08-18T07:15:16Z")
He’s also be an enemy of Big Business. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/6 "2008-08-18T07:43:38Z")
[QUOTE=Saint Cad] But what specifically on today’s issues like abortion, illegal immigration, etc. [/QUOTE] Probably against illegal immigration, but also, everything I mentioned are today’s issues also. Domestic Social issues are not the only issues of today. I don’t know what he’d think of abortion. Maybe that abortion should be left to the states. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/7 "2008-08-18T13:32:21Z")
The National Progressive Party (aka the Bull Mooses) believed in a strong national government (especially a strong executive which was not limited by the courts). They wanted business regulation and a social safety net. They were also big of defense spending and wanted an activist foreign policy. They were also pro-immigrant (in contrast to later versions of the Progressive Party). I can’t say what their positions would have been on abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/8 "2008-08-18T14:00:58Z")
So, in other words, their domestic policy would have been what later became known as Welfare Capitalism and their foreign policy Neo-Conservatism? TR would have gotten us into WWI earlier than 1917 - but to what end? To save the Czars’ Russia (bad) or to save Kenernsky’s (good? Or would he have been a proto-Putin?) TR had a mixed report card on race relations: he had Booker T. Washington to dinner at the White House, but personally imposed group punishment on an all-Black Army unit after some of its members stood up to abuse from civillians in Texas. Regardless of that, the Bull Moose would probably fall into the same pattern as every other party since the end of Reconstruction: give the Southern Whites what they want in exchange of their votes, and advance the cause of blacks either at a glacial pace or at no pace whatsoever. Abortion: same as above: publicy opposed, privately glad it was available so their daughters’ college careers wouldn’t be screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/9 "2008-08-18T18:12:44Z")
Roosevelt combined attributes that are seldom combined today–extreme bellicosity in foreign policy, fundamentalist Christian imagery (“We stand at Armageddon, and we battle for the Lord!”), and an economic outlook that would today be described as left-wing or liberal. You can’t combine those attributes and be successful today. Liberals won’t stand for the neo-con foreign policy. Social conservatives won’t stand for pro-regulatory and pro-high-taxation economic policy. So if he were alive today, Roosevelt would have to decide which were his core beliefs, and which could be jettisoned to get elected. My take is that he would be a neocon’s neocon, tacking as far toward “moderation” on economic issues as he could without alienating his base. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/10 "2008-08-18T18:19:10Z")
[QUOTE=Freddy the Pig] fundamentalist Christian imagery (“We stand at Armageddon, and we battle for the Lord!”). [/QUOTE] I’ve never understood whether this strain in TR was posturing, blustering, vote-gathering BS (as it is in most politicians) or his own private religious beliefs being expressed. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/11 "2008-08-18T18:42:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Roosevelt combined attributes that are seldom combined today–extreme bellicosity in foreign policy, fundamentalist Christian imagery (“We stand at Armageddon, and we battle for the Lord!”), and an economic outlook that would today be described as left-wing or liberal. Roosevelt’s beliefs had a common foundation. He wanted to fix things. So he wanted to fix social and economic problems at home and international problems overseas. He figured a strong centralized government (with him in the center) was the best tool for the job. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/12 "2008-08-18T18:48:58Z")
Also, I keep hearing [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXRRMPQm4zU) song now (with a pretty funny typo on the intro card). ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/13 "2008-08-18T19:29:37Z")
[QUOTE=Saint Cad] But what specifically on today’s issues like abortion, illegal immigration, etc. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > “In the first place we should insist that the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equity with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace or origin. But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming an American and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any flag of a nation to which we are hostile. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language…and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.” - Theodore Roosevelt in a letter to the American Defense Society in 1919. He also said that immigrants should be made to learn English within five years or be sent back home. And that “English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools.” And that refers to _legal_ immigrants. I think the problem we have now with illegal immigrants would make his head explode. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/14 "2008-08-18T19:55:07Z")
Roosevelt was also a peace maker, not just a hawk. He proved it time and again. I am sure he would have modified many positions for today and would be in favor of most forms of conservation, support AGW reforms, probably support nuclear power as part of that reform. The Abortion debate would pit his strong religious beliefs against his pragmatism. I would guess that he would compromise on this issue. He would want a strong military to try not to have to use it if that makes sense to you. I think he would have surprised many on the race issue. He would have been all for equality, though he would probably be against any federally mandated quota systems. He would really be against many of the current big business practices. Especially the trust like status that several skirt and the various tricks use to avoid paying taxes and shipping jobs offshore. I think he would have successfully out-mavericked McCain to the point that McCain would probably have just joined the Bull Moose Party. He probably would not have appeased the Neo-Cons or Theo-cons but instead really try to forge a middle party again between the excesses of the current Republican party and the Liberal Democratic party that preceded Bill Clinton and was still visible in candidates like Kerry & Edwards. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/15 "2008-08-18T20:31:12Z")
What’s brown and sticky? Barack Roosevelt’s foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/16 "2008-08-18T20:44:07Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] What’s brown and sticky? Barack Roosevelt’s foreign policy. [/QUOTE] 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/17 "2008-08-18T20:51:47Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] 😕 [/QUOTE] “Walk softly and carry a big stick”. Sorry, lame attempt at metahumor. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/18 "2008-08-19T01:08:58Z")
> [@](#): > > He also said that immigrants should be made to learn English within five years or be sent back home. And that “English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools.” > > And that refers to legal immigrants. I think the problem we have now with illegal immigrants would make his head explode. Maybe he’d be aware that immigrants are learning English faster today than they were in his era. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/19 "2008-08-19T01:13:57Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Maybe he’d be aware that immigrants are learning English faster today than they were in his era. [/QUOTE] IF that’s actually true, he’d be happy. Fewer of them would have to be shipped back at the end of the five years. Win-Win. Assuming they’d be the law-abiding legal kind, not the sneaking in to where the have no fucking business kind. But I guess that goes without saying. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392/20 "2008-08-19T22:18:12Z")
> [@](#): > > What would a Bull Moose believe? He would think Mrs Moose was sex-ay. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Denali_National_Park_Female_Moose_3000px.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Denali_National_Park_Female_Moose_3000px.jpg) He would be alone in this, of course. In actuality, the word _Populist_ pretty well covers the Bull Moose Party. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-bull-moose-believe/460392.md?page=2)