# What would a criminal indictment of Trump look like? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 11, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713 "2021-03-11T14:54:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/21 "2021-03-13T04:42:05Z")
One issue that I don’t think has been touched on in this thread is the reaction of Trump’s followers. I think we can take it as a given that Trump would proclaim that he is being falsely arrested and held as a political prisoner and would call on his followers to rise up on his behalf. So whichever city he’s arrested in would see thousands of violent protestors arriving to start rioting. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/22 "2021-03-13T05:13:06Z")
They wouldn’t last too long in NYC. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/23 "2021-03-13T14:02:39Z")
Rumors are abounding. 1. Cy Vance has announced he is not running for reelection. 2. Roy Cohen, President Trump former attorney has met with the DA seven times in the last while. I suspect something is going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/24 "2021-03-13T14:54:11Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > 1. Roy Cohen, President Trump former attorney has met with the DA seven times in the last while. Trump can even bring people back from the dead?! Maybe he _should_ be the once and future king!😉 ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/25 "2021-03-13T15:37:23Z")
This is a great article if you can access it: > **[Can Cyrus Vance, Jr., Nail Trump?](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/03/22/can-cyrus-vance-jr-nail-trump)** > > Insiders say that the Manhattan District Attorney’s investigation has dramatically intensified since the former President left office. “It’s like night and day,” says one. According to another, “They mean business.” It says that the pace of the criminal investigation has picked up dramatically. The DA’s office has hired an outside lawyer who specializes in white collar crime and has experience in prosecuting organized crime, and a forensic accounting firm that has experience in explaining complicated (and dry) financial crimes to juries. The author believes this is both to insure continuity as the case goes forward (since it likely won’t go to trial until after Vance leaves office) and to lessen any claims that politics are involved in the prosecution. A quote about the extradition issue. Sounds like he’d be arrested just like any other private citizen: > Trump has already demonstrated a willingness to engage in almost unthinkable tactics to protect himself. Among his social circle in Palm Beach, speculation abounds that Florida’s Republican governor, Ron DeSantis, an ally, might not honor an extradition request from New York if a bench warrant were issued for Trump’s arrest. Dave Aronberg, the state’s attorney for Palm Beach County, doubts that such defiance would stand. Extradition, he points out, is a constitutional duty, and a governor’s role in it is merely “ministerial.” But he admitted that the process might not go smoothly: “You know what? I thought January 6th would go smoothly. Congress’s role was just ministerial then, too.” (DeSantis did not respond to a request for comment.) A whole host of things are being investigated, so he could be charged with an array of things: > Vance’s probe has since expanded into a broad examination of the possibility that Trump and his company engaged in tax, banking, and insurance fraud. Investigators are questioning whether Trump profited illegally by deliberately misleading authorities about the value of his real-estate assets. > The widened scope of the D.A.’s investigation was hinted at in a court filing last August, which stated that the office was now looking into “possibly extensive and protracted criminal conduct at the Trump Organization.” They may try to flip Allen Weisselberg, the Trump Org’s accountant: > Weisselberg isn’t believed to be coöperating with prosecutors, but he may be vulnerable to pressure. He is seventy-three, and he has two sons who are both potentially enmeshed in the case … > Michael Cohen, who worked with Allen Weisselberg for years, believes that if prosecutors threaten him or his family with indictment—as they did with Cohen himself—he will coöperate. “He’s not going to let his boys go to prison,” Cohen told me. “And I don’t think he wants to spend his golden years in a correctional institution, either.” And lastly, because, ew (this quote is from Jennifer Weisselberg, Allen Weisselberg’s ex-daughter-in-law): > Jennifer described her former father-in-law as being in Trump’s thrall: “His whole worth is ‘Does Donald like me today?’ It’s his whole life, his core being. He’s obsessed. He has more feelings and adoration for Donald than for his wife.” Asked if Allen Weisselberg would flip under pressure, she said, “I don’t know. For Donald, it’s a business. But for Allen it’s a love affair.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/26 "2021-03-13T15:48:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s in the Constitution: _“Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state.”_ There’s a more specific clause than full faith and credit: [Article IV, Section 2, Clause 2:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Four_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_2:_Extradition_of_fugitives) > [@](#): > > A person charged in any state with treason, felony, or other crime, who shall flee from justice, and be found in another state, shall on demand of the executive authority of the state from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the state having jurisdiction of the crime. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/27 "2021-03-13T16:13:53Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > If there was enough evidence for a criminal indictment, I agree it would likely be a very limited house arrest under SS observation (and “house arrest” would probably mean “not leaving the country” instead of “not leaving the house”). Why do you assume pre-trial house arrest? Not crimes of violence, and bail can be set very high to guarantee his appearance. Just like any other accused, he has a constitutional right to bail. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/28 "2021-03-13T16:29:09Z")
Depends on whether he’s considered a flight risk. Just surrendering his passport may not be enough in his particular case. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/29 "2021-03-13T16:30:59Z")
That’s what bail is for. Sure, he’s got much better assets than your average person, but that can play against him. The court can make him hock Trump Tower as a condition of bail. If there’s anything he cares about other than himself, it’s money. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/30 "2021-03-13T16:38:26Z")
Given that he still has an SS detail, I don’t think he is much of a danger to flee. Not unless every one of them is prepared to sacrifice their career and do serious jail time for “aiding and abetting flight to avoid prosecution.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/31 "2021-03-13T16:40:02Z")
But are they law enforcement, with power to enforce NY state law by arrest? If Trump goes to an airport in Florida and gets on a plane, and tells them not to get on, is that enough for them to arrest him? ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/32 "2021-03-13T16:41:27Z")
John Dean on Twitter: > From personal experience, as a key witness, I assure you that you do not visit a prosecutor’s office 7 times if they are not planning to indict those about whom you have knowledge. It is only a matter of how many days until DA Vance indicts Donald & Co. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/33 "2021-03-13T16:42:11Z")
I liked this bit from the article: > [@](#): > > Adam Kaufmann, the former chief of the Investigation Division in the D.A.’s office, whom Vance overruled on the Trump SoHo matter, dismisses the notion that Vance was bought off. Vance, he said, “wrestled with the case from the beginning.” The condominium owners were not particularly sympathetic victims—their apartments were primarily used as pieds-à-terre—and **real-estate practices in New York are so often sleazy that it would have been hard to persuade a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that the Trumps were unusually criminal.** > … > Vance’s team investigated the case for two years, but he never became convinced that it merited criminal charges. Among other problems, the apartment owners settled their grievances privately with the Trump Organization, then declined to coöperate with prosecutors. Vance said, “ **I had a hundred thousand other cases in the office that year, with victims who actually wanted us to take the case.”** ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/34 "2021-03-13T16:48:05Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > It’s in the Constitution: _“Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state.”_ > > There’s a more specific clause than full faith and credit: > > [Article IV, Section 2, Clause 2:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Four_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_2:_Extradition_of_fugitives) > > > [@](#): > > > > A person charged in any state with treason, felony, or other crime, who shall flee from justice, and be found in another state, shall on demand of the executive authority of the state from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the state having jurisdiction of the crime. Beat me to it! Thanks, **NP**. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/35 "2021-03-13T21:58:04Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > But are they law enforcement, with power to enforce NY state law by arrest? If Trump goes to an airport in Florida and gets on a plane, and tells them not to get on, is that enough for them to arrest him? Yes, they have the power to arrest, and I would certainly think so. A court might disagree, but if I was one of his detail, I wouldn’t want to chance it. Better to get transferred for pissing off your primary than going to jail for aiding and abetting. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/36 "2021-03-13T22:03:13Z")
But doesn’t he have the power to dismiss his Secret Service group, and say, “no thanks, don’t want them”? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/37 "2021-03-13T22:58:01Z")
That is a good legal question. Depends on the wording of the law, I’d guess. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/38 "2021-03-13T23:15:30Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Beat me to it! Thanks, **NP**. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/39 "2021-03-14T01:11:51Z")
Personally I’m more interested in what might happen if an arrest warrant issued in NY happens and Agent Orange tries to get DeSantis to do something about it - effectively skewering him just like Pence. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2021, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713/40 "2021-03-14T02:18:04Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > But doesn’t he have the power to dismiss his Secret Service group, and say, “no thanks, don’t want them”? yes, he certainly does. Nixon did, as I recall. [googling]. Yes. he did > **[NIXON DROPPING PROTECTION BY SECRET SERVICE (Published 1985)](https://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/13/us/nixon-dropping-protection-by-secret-service.html)** > Former President Richard M. Nixon has decided to do without the Secret Service detail that has accompanied him since he left the White House in 1974, and he plans to choose protection that will not by paid by the taxpayer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-criminal-indictment-of-trump-look-like/937713.md?page=3)