# What would a Democratic Contract With America look like?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644>\
**Category:** Politics & Elections\
**Created:** [March 9, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644 "2015-03-09T23:01:49Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 16\
**Page:** 14

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**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/261 "2015-03-16T23:15:01Z")

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> [@adaher](#):
>
> No one working full time should be in poverty? No one is. Unless they have too many kids.

Or unless they have a sick relative they care for, or unless they have a serious car accident, or unless they have a fire or flood, or unless they’re a victim of crime, or unless they’re arrested unjustly, or unless they lose their job for a few months, or unless they have a disabled child, or unless one of a million other bad things happens to them.

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**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/262 "2015-03-17T00:54:09Z")

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> [@adaher](#):
>
> No one working full time should be in poverty? No one is. Unless they have too many kids. I’m sure they don’t mean raise minimum wage to the point where one person can support ten other people. I’m pretty sure the standard is “family of four”. So you get two kids. If you have three, you will still be in poverty if you don’t have skills.

2015 Poverty Guideline for a family of 4: $24,250.  
2015 Federal Minimum Wage: $7.25/hour  
Minimum Wage x 365 days x 8 hrs (IOW, NO VACATION FOR YOU!!!): $21,170.  
$21,170 \< $24,250.

So, a single wage earner supporting a family of 4 is below the line based on the current MW even if he or she works every single day.

“Ahhhh” you say, “but I was counting on BOTH parents working!”

Sure, let’s do that one too, but you’ll forgive me if I cut the 365 days a year in this calculation, won’t you?

Minimum wage x 2080 hrs (standard working year) x $7.25 x 2 = $30,160!

Congratulations! You made it. Of course, these two hypothetical parents don’t get any vacation time, sick time, time to take care of kids, etc.

Oh wait. No time to take care of kids. So, they’re also paying for full-time child care any time school’s out.

So, let’s figure that out, shall we? Can we use $30/day? There are around 50 days in the average school summer, plus 5 spring break days, plus 10 or so winter break days, plus another 5 or so other teacher planning/training days. So:  
70 days \* $30/day \* 2 = $4,200.  
$30,160 - $4,200 = $25,960 \> $24,250.

Still squeaking by!

Oops. The average school day in the US is only 6.5 hours. Damn. Parents are at work 8 hrs. Hmmmm…guess that means some sort of after school program. Tell you what, I’m generous. Let’s say that after school care only costs $5/day, okay? But our hypothetical happy wage slaves need that care EVERY school day. So roughly 180 days/year.  
$5/day \* 180 days \* 2 = $1,800.

$24,250 - $1,800 = $22,450 \< $24,250.

“But!”, you say, “they don’t have to pay for all that child care! Grandma takes care of the kids!”

Well, I would say that makes them a family of 5 not 4, but yep, you got me. Poverty level for a family of five = $28,410

Man, I sure hope they use that extra $1,750 to put something away for retirement instead of just blowing it on tires for the car. Otherwise they’re just spendthrifts, amiright?

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**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/263 "2015-03-17T02:54:57Z")

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> [@adaher](#):
>
> We had a Contract.

Ah, so the last idea you Republicans came up with was 21 years ago? Got it.

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**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/264 "2015-03-17T09:59:46Z")

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Actually, I was counting an individual working. An individual working full time for minimum wage is not in poverty. A single mother with one child working minimum wage is also probably not in poverty.

Sure, ONE person taking care of three others is in poverty. But if we’re going to require employers to ensure that every worker can care for three other people, I’m not sure why we’ll be stopping there. We probably won’t. We’ll probably be requiring four, then five. Even though we have reproductive choice.

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**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/265 "2015-03-17T11:14:18Z")

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> [@adaher](#):
>
> Actually, I was counting an individual working. An individual working full time for minimum wage is not in poverty. A single mother with one child working minimum wage is also probably not in poverty.
> 
> Sure, ONE person taking care of three others is in poverty. But if we’re going to require employers to ensure that every worker can care for three other people, I’m not sure why we’ll be stopping there. We probably won’t. We’ll probably be requiring four, then five. Even though we have reproductive choice.

Is it seriously so fucking hard for you to google something? To go back and the math on the assertion that you so blithely made:

Standard working year (2080 hrs) at MW = 15,080.

[Federal Poverty Guidelines](http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/15poverty.cfm)

```auto

Persons in family
   /household Poverty guideline
------------------ -----------------
       1 $11,770 
       2 15,930 
       3 20,090 
       4 24,250 
       5 28,410 
       6 32,570 
       7 36,730 
       8 40,890 

```

So, to recap: A single mom working for MW is in poverty. **Adaher** PLEASE stop posting inaccurate information - especially information that is ridiculously easy to find.

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**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/266 "2015-03-17T11:32:49Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> Minimum Wage x 365 days x 8 hrs (IOW, NO VACATION FOR YOU!!!): $21,170.

> [@](#):
>
> Standard working year (2080 hrs) at MW = 15,080.

I see now where you made your error. That one’s on you.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/267 "2015-03-17T11:35:05Z")

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> [@adaher](#):
>
> I see now where you made your error. That one’s on you.

You said “An individual working full time for minimum wage is not in poverty”, which is a factually false statement. That one’s on you.

You also suggested that the only possible cause of poverty for a working person is too many children, which is also false (I suggested several other possible factors). That’s also on you.

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**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/268 "2015-03-17T11:49:48Z")

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Using the data Zakalwe provided. $21.170.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/269 "2015-03-17T12:16:28Z")

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> [@adaher](#):
>
> Using the data Zakalwe provided. $21.170.

That wasn’t your only false claim, and when you used poor data that you failed to analyze (and it just takes a cursory glance to see is error), you share in the mistake. Just very lazy posting – it only takes a tiny, tiny amount of effort to do better.

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**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/270 "2015-03-17T13:14:44Z")

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We’ve done this to death. Only about 4% of the US working populace earns MW, most of those who earn MW are single and not supporting a family nor themselves, and about three quarters of poor households do not have anyone in them who works full-time year round.

> [@SirRay](#):
>
> I’m going to agree that some of the choices in that Contract For Americans are questionable, but I’d say a number would get 60% - IMO, the following:
> 
> From category I: Basic Fairness Issues:
> 
> 1. Minimum wage of $12.50 or $15 per hour. No one working full time should be in poverty. It is also important to encourage employers to offer full-time jobs.  
> (Not sure about 15.00 per hour - however, I would support the Min wage being linked to the CPI)

You are not going to get 60% on this. Keep in mind that a majority opposes raising MW to $10.10 an hour - you are not going to get any but a small minority to raise it higher than that. Too many small business owners.

> [@](#):
>
> 1. Treat all Veterans fairly, keep our promises to them, and help them rebuild their lives. No veteran should be hungry or homeless.

Also motherhood and apple pie.

> [@](#):
>
> II: Tax Reform:
> 
> 1. Do NOT Increase Taxes for Anyone Making Less Than $500,000 Dollars per Year, but people making more than that should pay their fair share.  
> –I think you could get 60% for this

No, Obama did not get 60% support for this. (Actually he promised not to raise taxes on those who made $250K per year or more. [He was lying](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/515/no-family-making-less-250000-will-see-any-form-tax/).)

Which is a problem for the Dems - they tried this kind of thing before in many cases. “I was lying before, but I am telling the truth now” is a tough sell.

See also

> [@](#):
>
> Stop the “revolving door” between those in government and industry. Government officials should be banned at least 5 years from lobbying the government.

Again - Obama promised this when he first ran for President. Again, he was [lying](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/mar/17/obamas-lobbyist-rules-promise-broken/).

> [@](#):
>
> ) Anti-corruption Measures: Even the Supreme Court acknowledges that “corruption or the appearance of corruption” is not a good thing.  
> 60% easily, but way too vague

This is another motherhood issue - sound bite, not policy. It is the same as promises to cut waste from government - it sounds like a painless way to get something for nothing, but it doesn’t work out that way. See “no-bid government contracts”, which were examples of [list=a][li]examples of waste and corruption, or [\*]examples of praiseworthy and efficient government.[/list][/li]

> [@](#):
>
> IV: Celebrate and Build on Our Accomplishments:  
> – Well, since the ACA and Climate Change are still too polarized to get 60%, so the question is why they didn’t go for the easy 60%-able necessary infrastructure repair

I am sure you could get 60%, if you don’t worry too much about how much it will cost, and what its purpose will be. Obama also thought there were lots of “shovel-ready” projects that could bring us out of recession if he just primed the pump by increasing the national debt by more than every other President in history put together. Guess what - here we are in 2015 and the Dems still think we need to spend trillions to do the same thing.

Regards,  
Shodan

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/271 "2015-03-17T17:24:20Z")

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> [@adaher](#):
>
> I see now where you made your error. That one’s on you.

What are you talking about? I clearly laid out the parameters. One calculation is based on a 365 day work year. The other (more realistic) one is based on the standard 40hrs a week. Two different numbers based on two different criteria. What error?

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**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/272 "2015-03-17T18:22:38Z")

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> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> You said “An individual working full time for minimum wage is not in poverty”, which is a factually false statement.

The poverty threshhold for an individual is $11,770. Working 2080 hours at minimum wage earns $15,080.

So the statement “an individual working full time for minimum wage is not in poverty” is factually correct.

Once you start adding children, then you will be somewhat below the poverty threshhold with one child and further and further below the more children you have.

Regards,  
Shodan

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/273 "2015-03-17T18:46:37Z")

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> [@Shodan](#):
>
> The poverty threshhold for an individual is $11,770. Working 2080 hours at minimum wage earns $15,080.
> 
> So the statement “an individual working full time for minimum wage is not in poverty” is factually correct.
> 
> Once you start adding children, then you will be somewhat below the poverty threshhold with one child and further and further below the more children you have.
> 
> Regards,  
> Shodan

Thanks for catching my lazy mistake. Good eye! My other criticisms of the posts still stand, unless I missed something again.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/274 "2015-03-17T20:55:34Z")

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> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Thanks for catching my lazy mistake. Good eye! My other criticisms of the posts still stand, unless I missed something again.

I don’t think you missed anything. More of a philosophical disagreement over whether “I work full time at a MW job and I and my kids are still poor” is because mimimum wage is too low, or because you have too many kids.

And, to be fair to **adaher** , he did say

> [@](#):
>
> Sure, ONE person taking care of three others is in poverty. But if we’re going to require employers to ensure that every worker can care for three other people, I’m not sure why we’ll be stopping there.

Which is, IMO, a valid question - should mimimum wage be set at a level sufficient to support a family, and if so, how big a family? Especially since rather few Americans earn MW, and the majority of those aren’t supporting a family.

Which is another drawback of the Democratic Contract with Americans - they present an increase in MW to $12.50 an hour as if it were obviously fair, would do a lot of good for everyone and have no drawbacks (hence their denial of the CBO report in favor of a Labor Department report that does not exactly say what they seem to think it does). Increases in MW have been debated for some years now. It is not so obvious as the blogger wants us to believe, and hence is not likely to garner 60% support.

Regards,  
Shodan

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/275 "2015-03-17T21:13:48Z")

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> [@Shodan](#):
>
> And, to be fair to **adaher** , he did say  
> Which is, IMO, a valid question - should mimimum wage be set at a level sufficient to support a family, and if so, how big a family? Especially since rather few Americans earn MW, and the majority of those aren’t supporting a family.

But a lot of Americans earn under $X (X being various higher levels of the minimum wage).

> [@](#):
>
> Which is another drawback of the Democratic Contract with Americans - they present an increase in MW to $12.50 an hour as if it were obviously fair, would do a lot of good for everyone and have no drawbacks (hence their denial of the CBO report in favor of a Labor Department report that does not exactly say what they seem to think it does). Increases in MW have been debated for some years now. It is not so obvious as the blogger wants us to believe, and hence is not likely to garner 60% support.

I think the MW should be raised in a very gradual and deliberate fashion – raise it by $1, then wait a year and see any effects, then raise it another $1 (assuming no ill effects), and then wait a year, etc., stopping (and even reversing) if there are any major ill effects shown, or stopping at some set value (maybe $12.50), whichever comes first.

It’s hard to see how this could lead to any major negative effects.

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**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\
**Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-democratic-contract-with-america-look-like/714644/276 "2015-03-18T02:41:48Z")

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This particular manifesto from the 1970s would be an excellent basis for a Democratic Party programme that is strongly progressive without falling into the traps of Tumblrista/SJWism: [http://socialistcurrents.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/American-Challenge-1973.pdf](http://socialistcurrents.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/American-Challenge-1973.pdf)

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