# What would a frictionless surface feel like? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 22, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385 "2008-12-22T23:24:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/21 "2008-12-23T08:14:08Z")
Man good luck trying to put that thing together on your living room floor! Unless you keep the pieces all in the box and remove as needed, they’ll be all over the place. I think the table would feel just like oil, but with no residue. Or, like two wet ice cubes rubbed together but without the cold. ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/22 "2008-12-23T08:36:28Z")
Aye, there’s the **rub**! If you’re on the **skids** , you can **scrape** up a little unobtanium, and unless you hit a **snag** , you’ll do just **grate** and you’ll **graze** in clover! Somehow, that just **chafes** , you know? ---
**Author:** ![spike404](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@spike404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spike404)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/23 "2008-12-23T12:08:15Z")
In my experience, I have used wishalloy fasteners to hold my unobtainium fixtures together. ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/24 "2008-12-23T13:32:43Z")
> [@stolichnaya](#): > > Could a frictionless surface be machined or drilled? Even the assembly of this table is very interesting. Well, if all else fails, you could still make cuts in it with an industrial laser. I’ll just assume we’re not on a budget for this particular project. ---
**Author:** ![Wiltshire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ea5d25/32.png) [@Wiltshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiltshire)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/25 "2008-12-23T13:53:02Z")
The feeling should come close to walking on a vat of mercury. Only instead of not sinking in deeply, you wouldn’t sink in at all on your table. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/26 "2008-12-23T13:58:01Z")
> [@glee](#): > > What would a frictionless surface feel like? > > Smooth! You need about six or eight more 'o’s in there to be scientifically accurate. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/27 "2008-12-23T14:04:27Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > You need about six or eight more 'o’s in there to be scientifically accurate. Smoooooooooth! ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/28 "2008-12-23T14:28:15Z")
I agree: it would feel really, really, really, slippery, but not greasy. No particular reason for it to feel cold, though. Depends on whether the heat conductivity of unobtanium is closer to metal (it would feel cold) or plastic (warm). (The room-temperature superconducting table will feel cool to the touch, though). If the entire thing is frictionless unobtanium (I assume it’s like aluminum, and there’s a layer of unobtanium oxide on the outside, which is the frictionless part), then screws or worse nails won’t work. Bolts and nuts (of normal metal) would work though (the nut and bolt need to have friction against each other, but not the material in between). Putting it together is going to be a little tricky, but do-able. To pick any pieces up, you’ll have to grab them on opposite corners (or use a wall or something), otherwise they’ll just slide away along the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/29 "2008-12-23T14:32:58Z")
Like picking up a wet ice cube (minus the cold). ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/30 "2008-12-23T22:14:17Z")
> [@spike404](#): > > In my experience, I have used wishalloy fasteners to hold my unobtainium fixtures together. Hooray! See, that right there is a useful answer. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/31 "2008-12-23T22:16:50Z")
> [@emilyforce](#): > > 😕 At what degree of smallness does “texture” stop being texture and start being friction? Well, that’s a great question, and I’m not sure there _is_ an answer - mechanical interlocking _is_ a component of friction at any scale… I _think_… ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/32 "2008-12-23T22:18:53Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > Hooray! See, that right there is a useful answer. Not really, we haven’t got any wishalloy stockists round here. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/33 "2008-12-23T22:19:11Z")
> [@Wiltshire](#): > > The feeling should come close to walking on a vat of mercury. Only instead of not sinking in deeply, you wouldn’t sink in at all on your table. You would not be able to walk on it. You would step on and slide to the opposite side, possibly on your arse, after flailing about a bit, or possibly still standing up if you could manage to keep your legs fairly rigid. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/34 "2008-12-23T22:20:55Z")
I want some to make runners for a warm-weather sledge. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/35 "2008-12-23T22:31:54Z")
Frictionless table + cat = entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/36 "2008-12-23T22:35:59Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > … mechanical interlocking _is_ a component of friction at any scale… I _think_… Huh. I turned to the great & powerful Wiki, which has this unexplained tidbit: [QUOTE=Wikipedia] Contrary to earlier explanations, kinetic friction is now understood not to be caused not by surface roughness but by chemical bonding between the surfaces.[sup][[4]](http://amasci.com/miscon/miscon4.html#fric)[/sup] Surface roughness and contact area, however, do affect kinetic friction for micro- and nano-scale objects where surface area forces dominate inertial forces.[sup] [5][/sup] [/QUOTE] The first reference leads to this: [QUOTE=Bad Science: Recurring Science Misconceptions in K-6 Textbooks] [CORRECTED: FRICTION IS NOT CAUSED BY SURFACE ROUGHNESS](http://amasci.com/miscon/miscon4.html#fric) Some books point to surface roughness as the explanation of sliding friction. Surface roughness merely makes the moving surfaces bounce up and down as they move, and any energy lost in pushing the surfaces apart is regained when they fall together again. Friction is mostly caused by chemical bonding between the moving surfaces; it is caused by stickiness. Even scientists once believed this misconception, and they explained friction as being caused by “interlocking asperites”, the “asperites” being microscopic bumps on surfaces. But the modern sciences of surfaces, of abrasion, and of lubrication explain sliding friction in terms of chemical bonding and “stick & slip” processes. The subject is still full of unknowns, and new discoveries await those who make surface science their profession When thinking about friction, don’t think about grains of sand on sandpaper. Instead think about sticky adhesive tape being dragged along a surface. [/QUOTE] Who knew? I sure didn’t – my high school physics teacher was a football coach who needed some teaching hours. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/37 "2008-12-23T22:46:14Z")
Hmmmm… OK, except that this explanation does rather seem to gloss over the fact that rough surfaces, like sandpaper, are in fact quite good at inhibiting sliding motion. Seems odd to be explaining _why_ something doesn’t happen, when it _does_ I mean, it may not be friction, proper, but when I slide two pieces of sandpaper against each other, the energy lost in making the grains ride up over each other is not gained as they slip back down the other side - it ain’t that simple ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/38 "2008-12-23T22:55:31Z")
I happened to recently attend a talk by one of the guys whose working with this version of stickiness. He’s looked at gecko footpads and so forth. His microscopic views of these pads shows them to be made of tightly packed columns that are able to sway somewhat, and where the ends of these columns, which tend to be flattened, come into contact with the surface of another material, they adhere by the same process as adhesive tape, i.e. the natural adhesion of one material for another, such as water and, say, cloth. I presume that the update on the textbook is referring to that type of friction, where some force would have to overcome the natural adhesion between materials. On the other hand, we all know that it’s harder to drag a box across the carpet than it is to drag it across the kitchen floor, so roughness certainly seems to be a factor. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/39 "2008-12-23T23:05:21Z")
> [@stolichnaya](#): > > Could a frictionless surface be machined or drilled? Even the assembly of this table is very interesting. Sure. Just drill your holes from the other, nonfrictionless side. I’m understanding the OP to mean a frictionless surface material attached to some other material. But there’s the rub. (Sorry - it just slipped out.) I don’t believe you could find any way to bond Nonfrictionlon to anything else. So let’s presume we’re working with solid Nonfrictionlon. What you do is mold threaded screwholes into the object when you cast it. Torque down the screws tight enough and tension/compression should hold 'em in place. Just don’t bump into the thing, or it’ll slide clear to the end of the factory. ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385/40 "2008-12-23T23:05:35Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Bolts and nuts (of normal metal) would work though (the nut and bolt need to have friction against each other, but not the material in between). It might work, but the table is going to look like it was built by Dr. Frankenstein if we have bolts sticking out everywhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-frictionless-surface-feel-like/478385.md?page=3)