# What would a "moon shot" solution to gun violence look like? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076 "2017-11-08T22:54:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/41 "2017-12-02T23:13:53Z")
Give everybody 18 and over the same variety of ten guns and require them to openly carry two loaded ones at all times. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/42 "2017-12-02T23:23:04Z")
Americans are all about money. Buy back guns at every opportunity, make it an attractive deal so street thugs get on board. Every gun carries an insurance policy to cover the victims of it’s use, even lost or stolen. These policies escalate in cost with each additional gun. Now only wealthy people can afford private Arsenal’s. And rich people are pretty sensitive to tax exposure etc. So add on that to have more than one gun you’re going to have to publicly reveal a great deal about your financials so we know you’re not a criminal. Rich people hate that shit. Lastly use tax incentives, % off your tax rate for every gun you turn it, no matter how you got it. Rich people love a tax incentive! When you can’t live on minimum wage, afford healthcare or education, I’m thinking you’ll take any opportunity to get $. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/43 "2017-12-02T23:25:53Z")
1. There will be a 10-year federal mandatory minimum sentence with NO possibility of parole, for anyone with a felony record who is caught in possession of a firearm. Absolutely NO loopholes around it. 2. These offenders - those of them who are not severely mentally ill - will be conscripted into a New Deal-style program to develop alternative energy sources. Rather than a prison, they will be housed in campus-style complexes with individual rooms for each inmate, with limited internet access and reasonably comfortable accomodations. Based on their level of education, they will be assigned manual labor work details, or trained in vocational classrooms to a degree of proficiency in mechanical jobs that are relevant to the installation of clean energy generators. There would be potential for upward advancement from unskilled manual labor to skilled trades, if the inmate is willing to be educated. They would earn a decent wage for these jobs and would have the opportunity to save money. These federal facilities would be under military supervision and might even have an indoctrination phase similar to military recruit training. The inmates could even be given a proprietary rank structure and titles more dignified than “inmate” to instill a sense of pride. Those that are incapable of submitting to the discipline of this institution would be transferred to the general population of a federal prison, to serve their 10 years with no possibility of parole. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/44 "2017-12-03T00:32:51Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Improve social conditions in a few neighborhoods in a few cities that are responsible for the majority of gun violence. Start with St. Louis, New Orleans, Detroit, DC, Chicago. What’s that gonna do? it’s not people in cities holding back gun control. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/45 "2017-12-03T03:34:05Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > What’s that gonna do? it’s not people in cities holding back gun control. These are the source of vast majority of murders, plus a few others I forgot, noted above. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/46 "2017-12-03T03:50:45Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > What’s that gonna do? it’s not people in cities holding back gun control. I think one of you is speaking of making people not want to have guns, and the other about encouraging gun control. Perhaps I am mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/47 "2017-12-03T04:34:20Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Americans are all about money. Buy back guns at every opportunity, make it an attractive deal so street thugs get on board. > > Every gun carries an insurance policy to cover the victims of it’s use, even lost or stolen. These policies escalate in cost with each additional gun. Now only wealthy people can afford private Arsenal’s. And rich people are pretty sensitive to tax exposure etc. So add on that to have more than one gun you’re going to have to publicly reveal a great deal about your financials so we know you’re not a criminal. Rich people hate that shit. > > Lastly use tax incentives, % off your tax rate for every gun you turn it, no matter how you got it. Rich people love a tax incentive! > > When you can’t live on minimum wage, afford healthcare or education, I’m thinking you’ll take any opportunity to get $. With this plan, you have now legitimized residential burglaries and other thefts. Just so I am clear, I can steal all of the guns I want and the government pays me top dollar for them, no questions asked? It’s even better if I murdered the homeowner in the process because the government now melts down the gun so it cannot be traced back to me! This principle of “gun insurance” keeps popping up in these threads, but it bears no resemblance to current tort law. I am not responsible if someone steals my car and then intentionally runs over someone. Likewise, no insurance covers intentional acts. I can’t burn down my house and collect insurance money. I cannot shoot someone with a gun and absolve myself of personal liability by having an insurance company pay. It’s a moral hazard. Finally, this does nothing to prevent mass shootings. If I have a demented mind and am committed to renting a hotel room on a high floor of a hotel room and mowing down innocent concert goers across the street, and am then going to commit suicide afterwards, it makes no difference if I might be able to deduct the AR-15 on my 1040 next April if I turned it in. It always amazes me how otherwise intelligent people come up with such absurd solutions when it comes to guns. Why don’t we give tax credits for turning in cocaine and mandate insurance for people who use cocaine to cover any acts they commit while high? Sounds absurd, right? It is equally absurd with guns. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/48 "2017-12-03T16:58:18Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Cite to show that race is a biological trait please. Nothing in what bump stated was based on race. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/49 "2017-12-04T15:37:03Z")
> [@ThisIsTheEnd](#): > > Give everybody 18 and over the same variety of ten guns and require them to openly carry two loaded ones at all times. I was going to post something like this … but the way **ThisIsTheEnd** puts it … maybe it’s a bad idea … perhaps limit this to just _women_ 18 and over … “Moon shot” to curb violence: Rip up the Constitution, set up re-education camps and require all expression be polite and inoffensive … Reminds me of a comic when Liu Xiaobo was sent to a labor camp and forced to make t-shirts for the American market with the printing “Free Liu Xiaobo” … ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/50 "2017-12-04T15:42:01Z")
This being America, how about collecting all the guns to melt down into a single giant gun to actually shoot the moon? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/51 "2017-12-04T21:08:09Z")
Does, by the term mass shooting, the OP mean simply events like Las Vegas? (In kind, if not in scope.) Because if you exclude your garden-variety crime related killings you could make progress. Here’s a beginning tactic. Publicizing killers who kill for publicity turns the media into accomplices. Henceforth, the first mass shooter will be referred to as “Moron Number One”. Want to bet we’d never reach double digits? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/52 "2017-12-04T22:26:40Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > But going along with the OP and allowing for pie in the sky, maybe there are technological means? So you have armed drones covering most of the outdoors, and then all public indoor spaces require you to pass through special turnstiles that will not let you go through while holding metal. They could be Networked through the Sky to make sure nothing bad happened. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/53 "2017-12-05T01:02:51Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The solution I like is to say, “back away from the slippery slope,” and treat guns like other tools that are dangerous. Require folks to have a license before purchasing them, showing that they’re trained in the use of a gun. Require all sales to happen through approved channels that involve a background check–no gun show loopholes. Require all guns to be insured. Require proof of insurance before purchasing ammunition (or ingredients for making ammunition like gunpowder). > > If we’re going moonshot level, require all ammunition to have markers–codes etched in the shell, chemical flags in the ammunition–that enable tracing ammunition back to its source, to facilitate enforcement of laws against illegal ammo sales. > > We’ll never eliminate mass shootings, but we can cut them down to the point where we don’t have more than any other nation at peace. Moonshot (to me) would be that whenever a firearm is fired, police can easily know who did it, when they did it and where they did it. The how is up to the scientists. If that means taggants are improved, or all gun stocks have a gps unit plus fingerprint analyzer - whatever. But make it so that if a firearm goes off somewhere, there is solid evidence of the who / where / when that can be tied to the result. This would also include the cops - they will be held under the same restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/54 "2017-12-05T01:21:38Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Moonshot (to me) would be that whenever a firearm is fired, police can easily know who did it, when they did it and where they did it. > > The how is up to the scientists. If that means taggants are improved, or all gun stocks have a gps unit plus fingerprint analyzer - whatever. But make it so that if a firearm goes off somewhere, there is solid evidence of the who / where / when that can be tied to the result. This would also include the cops - they will be held under the same restrictions. Current thing that exists, with the strong limit that it’s expensive and only works in areas that implemented it: [Gunfire locator - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfire_locator) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/55 "2017-12-05T02:24:47Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > This would also include the cops - they will be held under the same restrictions. That would be new. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/56 "2017-12-05T06:44:49Z")
Hers a novel idea, how about instead of a moon shot against guns a moon shoot against the criminals who committed the crimes? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/57 "2017-12-05T07:49:03Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Hers a novel idea, how about instead of a moon shot against guns a moon shoot against the criminals who committed the crimes? Now that’s just crazy talk. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/58 "2017-12-07T21:59:57Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Hers a novel idea, how about instead of a moon shot against guns a moon shoot against the criminals who committed the crimes? That was what I was going for in my random thought. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076/59 "2017-12-07T23:30:59Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > 1. Americans are all about money. Buy back guns at every opportunity, make it an attractive deal so street thugs get on board. > > 2. Every gun carries an insurance policy to cover the victims of it’s use, even lost or stolen. These policies escalate in cost with each additional gun. Now only wealthy people can afford private Arsenal’s. 1. This idea, often in the US attributed to Americans particularly, but in general economic determinism wherever applied, is flawed. People aren’t actually driven entirely or even in some areas of life principally by money. Lots of analysis and proposed solutions to lots of things start with this flawed premise. Important yes, money. Determinant, often not. 2. And this is really just saying to disqualify lots of people from gun ownership. Who could possibly not see through the ‘gun insurance’ ruse? Yet it’s a staple of internet proposals. That’s not ‘Americans are all about money’, it’s just saying ‘let’s make most people ineligible to own guns’. It could as easily be, you have to first serve an X year term as a public service volunteer to qualify, or the local police chief has to sign off (under no obligation to) that each universally required gun license applicant really ‘needs’ one. Why not make it retroactive too, then all the 10’s mils of guns would soon disappear. Kind of a joke, though in fairness I’m not sure you weren’t joking. I take ‘moon shot’ to mean some big technological development or breakthrough, not a political sea change where the Democrats could get a majority on a platform of strict national gun control (via ‘insurance’ or whatever else) and keep it if they followed through. Which is political light years from the current situation. Of course an actual technical breakthrough would tend to face the same hurdle, certainly if it’s a technology change _in_ guns (already seen with ‘smart guns’, no politically feasible way to make them mandatory). Conceivably not if something external to guns. Super duper gunfire locators have been suggested. But current tech is nowhere near quickly chasing down each illegal discharge of a firearm (many are legal, back to the unreality of a ‘moon shot’ solution which is just a huge political change). And hard to imagine a really effective surveillance based tech with no impact on other US constitutional rights like the 4th amendment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-moon-shot-solution-to-gun-violence-look-like/801076.md?page=2)