# What would a phonetic English alphabet look like? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 30, 2002, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-phonetic-english-alphabet-look-like/106428 "2002-04-30T06:29:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-phonetic-english-alphabet-look-like/106428/1 "2002-04-30T06:29:20Z")
How many unique phonetic sounds are there in the English language? What are the letters and symbols used to represent them? How many “letters” would you need to represent them (things like the ‘th’, ‘ion’, ‘ch’, and ‘sh’ sounds)? ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-phonetic-english-alphabet-look-like/106428/2 "2002-04-30T06:36:52Z")
The book _A Biography of the English Language_ states that Present Day English has 25 unique consonant phonemes, and 14 vowel phonemes. Not every phoneme is phonemic for every dialect of English–many, including myself, pronounce cot and caught exactly alike. Dialectical variations would prevent a truly phonetic alphabet, but you could certainly get a lot closer than we have now with only a 50% increase in the number of “letters.” ---
**Author:** ![Tsubaki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@Tsubaki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tsubaki)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-phonetic-english-alphabet-look-like/106428/3 "2002-04-30T10:23:26Z")
When you think about it, the Japanese phonetic alphabet has 45 letters. So if we go by **Opus1** ’s theory, a 50% increase would result in only 39 letters; still less than Japanese. And Japanese letters aren’t really that hard to learn. I think we should go for it! ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-phonetic-english-alphabet-look-like/106428/4 "2002-04-30T14:11:29Z")
Here’s an alphabet that some guy cooked up as phonetic English, [http://www.omniglot.com/writing/unifon.htm](http://www.omniglot.com/writing/unifon.htm) ---
**Author:** ![johncole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@johncole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johncole)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-phonetic-english-alphabet-look-like/106428/5 "2002-04-30T14:12:26Z")
There have been many attempts to establish a phonetic alphabet for the English language. One of the major contenders is the Initial Teaching Alphabet (ITA) first developed by Pitman (of shorthand fame) which uses 40 sound signs (17 vowels and 23 consonants). More examples can be found at the [_Spelling Reform Webring_](http://h.webring.com/hub?ring=orthography&list) suggested Google search (phonetic alphabet shaw pitman) produces about 150 results. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-phonetic-english-alphabet-look-like/106428/6 "2002-04-30T14:20:21Z")
How about [the Deseret alphabet?](http://www.unicode.org/pending/deseret/Deseret.html) ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-phonetic-english-alphabet-look-like/106428/7 "2002-04-30T14:28:29Z")
There is already an [International Phonetic Alphabet](http://www2.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/ipachart.html). Why would we need one that is just for English? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-phonetic-english-alphabet-look-like/106428/8 "2002-04-30T14:51:36Z")
George Bernard Shaw designed a phonetic alphabet (well, why not? He gave us Prof. Henry Higgins!) and even had his play **Androcles and the Lion** printed using it. I’ve got a copy. Here is a page of links to Shaw Alphabet sites. There’s a sa,ple of his “alphabet” (which uses invented symbols) on the page: [http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html](http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html) ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-phonetic-english-alphabet-look-like/106428/9 "2002-04-30T15:09:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > \*\* > Here is a page of links to Shaw Alphabet sites. There’s a sa,ple of his “alphabet” (which uses invented symbols) on the page: > > [http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html](http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html) \*\* Yipes. It looks like Tolkien’s Tengwar alphabet. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-phonetic-english-alphabet-look-like/106428/10 "2002-04-30T16:38:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muad’Dib \* > **How many unique phonetic sounds are there in the English language?** Which English language? The English I speak is undoubtedly different than the English you speak. This is true whether we come from different cities or from different continents. Generally speaking, “Standard” American English has 24 phonemically distinct consonants and 16 vowels. The “standard” British dialect (“Received Pronunciation”) has 20 vowels. Your mileage may vary. > [@](#): > > **What are the letters and symbols used to represent them?** If you know how to read and write, then I think you already know the answer to this question. > [@](#): > > **How many “letters” would you need to represent them (things like the ‘th’, ‘ion’, ‘ch’, and ‘sh’ sounds)?** If you want distinct symbols, then you need 40 for SAE, or 44 for RP. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-a-phonetic-english-alphabet-look-like/106428/11 "2002-04-30T17:21:21Z")
**KneadToKnow** , the IPA is great for **phonetic** spelling. Phonetic spelling is useful for writing down precisely the sounds of a speaker. You can distinguish the difference between the _t_-sounds in _t_oe, a_t_, and li_tt_le. For general use spelling of words, **phonemic** spelling is much more useful. Most readers could care less which _t_-sound is used. _t_ is sufficient for all of the _t_-sounds.