# What would an American "civil war" look like? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 3, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213 "2018-07-03T03:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/81 "2018-07-04T14:46:10Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Going back to the subject of the thread, I would submit that we could be one contested election away from major civil unrest. We’re obviously aware that there is already deep distrust of the political leadership in this country on all sides. But further, there are clear differences of attitude based on demography. There is a growing sense among many of us that people who are somehow different from us can’t possibly understand us and be trusted with the rights and responsibilities that we enjoy. Particularly among conservatives (but even among progressives as well), there is growing doubt about the legitimacy of people who have different live experiences than their own. There are increasingly divergent views among the population about what it means to be a real American and what American values are. There is a the sense among many that people with different backgrounds and with different life experiences have different values, which leads to suspicion of the other. With this, there is a sense among many that if the ‘other side’ wins that they will probably conspire against them somehow. There is the growing sense that “others” can’t be trusted to be as “American” and “democratic” and “law-abiding” and “freedom loving” as us. This is an extremely toxic dynamic, and it is one that authoritarians and anti-democrats have exploited over and over again throughout history. And they’re exploiting it now. > > A contested election would be explosive. When Al Gore conceded to George W Bush, many of his supporters found the result controversial, but save for a few diehards who eventually faded out of the mainstream, most people never challenged the legitimacy of Bush’s presidency. Bush had legitimacy because people generally felt that the process was fairly conducted, that there had been free and fair elections, and that they had been free of the kinds of disruptions that would lead us to question the legitimacy of the results. But more importantly, most people back then didn’t walk around talking about fake news and rigged elections. There existed a greater sense of shared facts, shared truth, shared reality, even though there were already signs of divisions at that point. Were such an outcome to happen today, however, I suspect that the antipathy would be much, much greater. > > But let’s take it one step further. Knowing what we now know about Russia’s intent to intervene in our election process, we now enter the mid-terms of 2018 and the upcoming presidential election of 2020 with the country fully aware of the fact that a foreign power now has the ability to disrupt the election. We already enter the upcoming election cycles with decreased confidence in the legitimacy of these elections. If Republicans win the election, it is almost certain that many progressives will have doubts about the legitimacy of the outcome. This is especially true when you factor in other aspects of the Republican procedural war against their opposition, like voter suppression efforts that disproportionately target minorities. On the other hand, if Republicans lose the election, they could turn around and claim that the elections were disrupted and that the results aren’t legitimate. I’m not saying that they will make such outrageous claims, but they could. And millions of their voters would probably believe them, because they already have hostile views toward those who don’t share their worldview. > > We’re in an increasingly precarious situation. Very, very well put. (I would also have mentioned gerrymandering as part of that “procedural war”.) And factor onto that the simple fact that the trump administration hasn’t spent dime one of the monies allocated by Congress to shore up the integrity of our election processes invites the conclusion that further such interference is welcome at the top. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/82 "2018-07-04T15:40:03Z")
Oh brother. Look, if you’re really worried, I can help hook you up with property in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. It’s fucking beautiful. It’s like Wes Anderson’s _Moonrise Kingdom_. Best fly fishing on earth. Friendly people, amazing scenery, only a few hours from metro Halifax…you interested? I’ll help hook you up. I’m a real estate broker and while my license isn’t valid in Canada, I bet I’d at least get a referral fee. Interested? [Here](https://postimg.cc/image/q2yemndk7/) is a picture I took of the Margaree River two years ago. How could you say no to that? And the best part is, no more Donald Trump!! ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/83 "2018-07-04T16:39:10Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > Quite obvious that the Republicans would win (again)… Progressives won the first Civil War. If Lincoln were alive today, he would be a democrat. There is no rational argument for him being a republican. You’re missing a critical point, though: the left gets the scientists. Your military background won’t be worth shit when you’re suffocating in a cloud of sarin gas while your children are munching on some anthrax laced cookies. The occasional dirty bomb here and there should move things along. Really, the only worry is protecting the crops until we can enslave some survivors in MAGA hats for farming duties. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/84 "2018-07-04T16:59:44Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Progressives won the first Civil War. If Lincoln were alive today, he would be a democrat. There is no rational argument for him being a republican. > > You’re missing a critical point, though: the left gets the scientists. Your military background won’t be worth shit when you’re suffocating in a cloud of sarin gas while your children are munching on some anthrax laced cookies. The occasional dirty bomb here and there should move things along. Really, the only worry is protecting the crops until we can enslave some survivors in MAGA hats for farming duties. Lol. How “progressive” is it to use biological, chemical, and radioactive weapons? And slavery? Tsk tsk. Say goodbye to your flag and street names in 2118. But I think your premise is incorrect. There is a difference in quality between engineers and womyn’s study-ologists. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/85 "2018-07-04T17:27:34Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Lol. How “progressive” is it to use biological, chemical, and radioactive weapons? And slavery? Tsk tsk. Say goodbye to your flag and street names in 2118. > > But I think your premise is incorrect. There is a difference in quality between engineers and womyn’s study-ologists. I’m sure engineers will make useful slaves. Don’t forget we also get the tech elite. It will be Silicon Valley expertise versus a bunch of goobers with tin cans, string and AOL. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/86 "2018-07-04T17:56:50Z")
Oh come on. It’s not like I’m a fan of the type of people you’re referring to, but the ability of rural Americans to adapt and improvise and build things in a pinch is pretty superlative. I know a conservative Republican dude who lives on a gigantic sprawling ranch and he can build, from shit lying around on his property, pretty much anything you can imagine. Of course, he also holds a degree in engineering - but if you think there aren’t many rural and conservative people who do, you’re very badly mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/87 "2018-07-04T18:30:38Z")
You guys do realize that in all likelihood you’re having this increasingly ugly conversation, on a national holiday of unity no less, because of some bullshit that Alex Jones has been shoveling? Just checking… Carry on if you like. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/88 "2018-07-04T18:39:16Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Progressives won the first Civil War. If Lincoln were alive today, he would be a democrat. There is no rational argument for him being a republican. > > You’re missing a critical point, though: the left gets the scientists. Your military background won’t be worth shit when you’re suffocating in a cloud of sarin gas while your children are munching on some anthrax laced cookies. The occasional dirty bomb here and there should move things along. Really, the only worry is protecting the crops until we can enslave some survivors in MAGA hats for farming duties. I’ll let you think about that reply carefully.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/89 "2018-07-04T18:40:18Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > You guys do realize that in all likelihood you’re having this increasingly ugly conversation, on a national holiday of unity no less, because of some bullshit that Alex Jones has been shoveling? > Just checking… Carry on if you like. Fair point. I’m out for now. Happy Independence Day everyone! ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/90 "2018-07-04T18:42:27Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > You guys do realize that in all likelihood you’re having this increasingly ugly conversation, on a national holiday of unity no less, because of some bullshit that Alex Jones has been shoveling? What the hell would you know about political discourse, philosophy, social trends, or anything generally relating to intelligent discourse? What are you, enlightened? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/91 "2018-07-04T19:48:50Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > I’ll let you think about that reply carefully.:dubious: Yeah, you’re right. I tried it on, but there is no way progressives could be as savage, violent and depraved as an army of Trumpies. 😃 Happy Independence Day everyone! ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/92 "2018-07-04T21:16:06Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > \*Dearest Laura, > > It is with a heavy heart that I write you from behind enemy lines, as a prisoner in MAGAT camp 24, aka “Camp Conway”. While Operation Zushi-Sushi was a success, brilliantly led by Generals Avenatti and Maddow, I was unfortunately snared in the enemies trap as I was leading the 24th Regiment of the Tim Horton’s brigade to their positions (and don’t believe what you read - those Canadians are fine fighters and a worthy addition to the Cause.) > > I cannot go into more detail lest I give away secrets to the Traitors, however given that I had to march 9 miles to a makeshift camp… and then marched 9 more miles to another, further, camp 3 days later, it appears our objective was not only reached, but that a \. > > Our hearts are full, our determination growing by the day. Fortunately, I am not in the death camps reserved for our darker brethren - this one is more lenient, but the re-education can be excruciating, given we only have the minor works of Ayn Rand to read. But I have you to give me hope, purpose, life. > > Do not despair, my love, for the gallantry and fighting spirit of our men and women in arms will ensure I shall be in your arms soon, giving you a thousand kisses! > > Yours forever, > > John\* We are trying to get a box of silver foil blankets to you. Running the blockade is iffy or a good day. Keep your head down. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/93 "2018-07-05T00:37:34Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Those people don’t have to get involved. What makes you think their participation is necessary? This kind of violence is driven by committed minorities. The people of whom you speak hunker down and hope it goes away or, perhaps, become refugees. Yeah, they do need to be involved for it to be something that the label ‘civil war’ is appropriate for. If there isn’t a group pushing for control of the central government, major concessions from the central government, or secession, then what you have isn’t a civil war, it’s just some unrest. What you’re describing sounds a lot more like the riots and such we had in the 1960s, and if the level of violence goes back to what it was in the ‘swinging 60s’ it’s not great but hardly the end of the country. Why are people even talking about a ‘red state’ civil war in this thread? Republicans have most of the state legislatures, national congress, and the presidency in their pocket. I mean, why would you start a civil war for control of the country when you HAVE control of the country in the first place? It’s just bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/94 "2018-07-05T01:21:28Z")
Dearest wife, Quick thinking saved my platoon today from the Red Hats as we erected a barrier out of Hillary’s e-mails, since they still can’t seem to get over them. War is Hell. #secondcivilwarletters > ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/95 "2018-07-05T01:42:23Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Dearest wife, > Quick thinking saved my platoon today from the Red Hats as we erected a barrier out of Hillary’s e-mails, since they still can’t seem to get over them. War is Hell. > > #secondcivilwarletters > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/freddgorham/status/1014368610930823174?s=19) That’s some funny shit, right there 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/96 "2018-07-05T04:45:46Z")
I think most of this discussion is missing something important: a civil war will need an Archduke Ferdinand, a Reichstag Fire, or some similar spark that touches everything off. What would happen if Barack Obama were assassinated? What if the culprit were apprehended at Trump pardoned him/her? Or forget Obama. What if Maxine Waters were assassinated? She has received death threats. She has dared them to come at her. Trump was quick to get Secret Service protection for Sarah Sanders after she was quietly asked to leave a restaurant. Waters does not have similar protection. What do you suppose would happen if Trump’s indifference (or perceived indifference) would be seen as leading directly to Waters’ death? What if Trump himself were assassinated? What if the culprit were (or believed to be) a Clinton friend? What conspiracy would Hannity be spewing to his followers? What actions would he suggest his followers undertake? What if Trump died suddenly of natural causes? Would Trumpers actually believe it was natural and not some left-wing conspiracy? History is replete with small, seemingly insignificant events having large, long-lasting consequences. For example, it seems clear to me that the most significant factor involved in bringing Trump to the White House was the death of Beau Biden. Had that not happened, or happened at a different moment, we would have President Joe Biden today. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/97 "2018-07-05T04:54:41Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > … > What would happen if Barack Obama were assassinated? What if the culprit were apprehended at Trump pardoned him/her? > … Murders are generally prosecuted at the state level, so Trump couldn’t pardon the murderer. I suppose a Republican governor could but that seems less likely than Trump doing so. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/98 "2018-07-05T04:58:49Z")
wed end up like Somalia unless Canada or mexico sent in troops …… hundreds of petty gangs supporting mafia type of warlords……… ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/99 "2018-07-05T05:06:13Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Oh brother. Look, if you’re really worried, I can help hook you up with property in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. It’s fucking beautiful. It’s like Wes Anderson’s _Moonrise Kingdom_. Best fly fishing on earth. Friendly people, amazing scenery, only a few hours from metro Halifax…you interested? I’ll help hook you up. I’m a real estate broker and while my license isn’t valid in Canada, I bet I’d at least get a referral fee. Interested? [Here](https://postimg.cc/image/q2yemndk7/) is a picture I took of the Margaree River two years ago. How could you say no to that? And the best part is, no more Donald Trump!! Have they got WiFi there? How bad are the winters? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213/100 "2018-07-05T05:16:30Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Have they got WiFi there? How bad are the winters? How hard is it too immigrate and how soon are immigrants eligible for healthcare? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-american-civil-war-look-like/817213.md?page=6)