# What would an unloving, unjust, unfair God be like? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 2, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886 "2008-03-02T22:50:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/1 "2008-03-02T22:50:37Z")
In comparison to what we have now? I asked an ordained minister this question today and her answer was that she couldn’t conceive of such a thing. I wasn’t expecting such a cop-out, but I guess she was tired. Anyone else care to give this a shot? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/2 "2008-03-02T23:02:13Z")
_How_ unfair, unjust, unloving? I mean if we went to the extreme then we could say that such a being would simply have snuffed us all painfully out of existence by now, or would be suspending us in some sort of indefinite torment, or would repeatedly be creating the world merely in order to destroy it again spectacularly. ---
**Author:** ![Paladud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Paladud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paladud)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/3 "2008-03-02T23:10:53Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] In comparison to what we have now? I asked an ordained minister this question today and her answer was that she couldn’t conceive of such a thing. I wasn’t expecting such a cop-out, but I guess she was tired. Anyone else care to give this a shot? [/QUOTE] [Probably something like this](http://www.phobos-deimos.com/Cthulhu/cthulhu.jpg), with added devouring and insanity and such. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/4 "2008-03-02T23:41:08Z")
There’s a lot of bad shit in the world, but it certainly could be worse. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/5 "2008-03-03T01:06:15Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] There’s a lot of bad shit in the world, but it certainly could be worse. [/QUOTE] But it could be better–a whole LOT better–and that doesn’t stop people from saying that God is awesome lovingkindness. How can we really say God is love if we don’t really know how he’d be if he were hateful? I guess my point is, isn’t it easier and safer to just say “God is” rather than attributing qualities to him that are not in evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/6 "2008-03-03T01:06:20Z")
I surely wouldn’t be enjoying sex as much as I do in that world. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/7 "2008-03-03T01:18:14Z")
The American judicial system. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/8 "2008-03-03T01:23:33Z")
Let’s see…such a deity might condemn millions of persons in future generations to an eternity of flame, tormet, and being eaten by worms because their ancestors ate and apple. He or she might also execute the entire population of the world, including newborn babies, because they were wicked, sparing only one man and his family. He might also order a loyal servant of his to sacrifice his beloved son, causing him days of stress and grief, only to say "Psych!’ at the last moment. He might send bears to maim and kill several children because they mocked his prophet’s bald head. He’d definitely be okay with sanctioning raping captive women in war. Oh, and he’d send plagues all the freaking time. Why, yes, I have misplaced my Christian faith, why do you ask? And have you seen it? It was in my pocket just a few months ago. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/9 "2008-03-03T01:28:51Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] But it could be better–a whole LOT better–and that doesn’t stop people from saying that God is awesome lovingkindness. How can we really say God is love if we don’t really know how he’d be if he were hateful? I guess my point is, isn’t it easier and safer to just say “God is” rather than attributing qualities to him that are not in evidence? [/QUOTE] It’s even easier to say that God doesn’t exist, which is the answer that fits observation best IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/10 "2008-03-03T01:29:58Z")
As **Skald the Rhymer** says, such a God would result in what we see now. Of course it could be worse; and in fact, it might BE worse. For example, assuming that there was an afterlife, perhaps everyone goes to hell, and talk of heaven is nothing but lies designed to make the final betrayal hurt worse. Or perhaps only evil people go to Heaven, because they were the ones doing God’s will. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/11 "2008-03-03T01:30:34Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] It’s even easier to say that God doesn’t exist, which is the answer that fits observation best IMHO, [/QUOTE] Oh, I’d say the evidence equally fits God being a jerk. I prefer the no-God hypothesis, though, as it is less stressful. Stupid pants! Not only is my faith in God missing, but also the keys to my Alfa Romeo! ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/12 "2008-03-03T01:32:17Z")
Isn’t this kind of like asking what a blue grapefruit would be like? Inasmuch as the question tells us the answer? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/13 "2008-03-03T01:47:37Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] Oh, I’d say the evidence equally fits God being a jerk. I prefer the no-God hypothesis, though, as it is less stressful. [/QUOTE] It also fits God being non-omnipotent. But the simpler explanation usually being the correct one, I’m sticking with the no God hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/14 "2008-03-03T01:50:47Z")
[QUOTE=cricetus] Isn’t this kind of like asking what a blue grapefruit would be like? Inasmuch as the question tells us the answer? [/QUOTE] Not exactly. We don’t live in a world where millions insist that grapefruits are purple. Except for those heathens over there, who insist that they are plaid. ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/15 "2008-03-03T02:08:48Z")
Please see the Old Testament - and consider it closely… Or Catholic theology… ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/16 "2008-03-03T02:51:05Z")
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading] Please see the Old Testament - and consider it closely… Or Catholic theology… [/QUOTE] More specifics needed. ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/17 "2008-03-03T03:01:36Z")
[QUOTE=vivalostwages] More specifics needed. [/QUOTE] sigh… _really?_ … Ok. It starts with an arbitrary test of "H"is creations - a test he knew they’d fail. Because he’s like… omniscient and all. Or not? I get confused in the narratives as his omniscience gets turned on and off. Then he casts them out of Eden because well… that fruit (not necessarily an apple). He refuses a sacrifice of veggies since BLOOD is demanded. And knowing how well Cain would handle that rejection he did a rather diplomatic delivery of the news… And the story keeps getting better. A few highlights. A flood that kills everyone but 8 people. Hardening the heart of Pharoah, then punishing him for allowing that to happen. Telling the Jews to kill EVERYone. Then letting them lose in Ai because one idiot kept stuff - cuz… y’know… they ALL deserved to die. Fast forward (or backward in time, if you will) to Job. What’d he do wrong? Ok… sure God didn’t do anything but remove his protection… but… REALLY? Is this not shaping up to be an arbitrary and cold God? A God who plays favorites based solely on race? And anytime the Jews screw up… it’s time to make 'em slaves - somewhere else. And we just don’t give enough to God for tithes… that’s the end point of the OT. Catholicism… if you’re Catholic… you already know you serve an angry God. So… I don’t see a need for a citation. If you aren’t Catholic - you know a lapsed one. Listen for a bit… you’ll see. Teflon’s got nothing on the sticky of Catholic guilt. I’m atheist, but not militant. Objectively… the OT is pretty darn harsh and I think few independent, reasonable people would seek to refute that. ---
**Author:** ![Zulema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/db5fbb/32.png) [@Zulema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zulema)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/18 "2008-03-03T03:05:23Z")
This God is, at best, unfair\* if \*he has total control over everything. If He is just a part of an even greater thing that he has no control over he could possibly be loving. There is always the comparison of God being like our father, our father who can’t protect us from the the horrible things in this world but wants the best for us and sometimes has to let us go to let us learn. Is God a puppet of some higher being? I’m reading the Bible now for the first time and I don’t see a loving God anywhere, or a fair or just God. I’m surprised the minister didn’t say something about how we can’t know God’s will and we will know that he is loving, just and fair but we won’t understand until we die. ---
**Author:** ![Zulema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/db5fbb/32.png) [@Zulema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zulema)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/19 "2008-03-03T03:12:26Z")
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading] sigh… _really?_ … Ok. Hardening the heart of Pharoah, then punishing him for allowing that to happen. [/QUOTE] That part bothers me a great deal. Pharaoh repeatedly wanting to let the Jews go and God repeatedly changing his heart so God can display his awesome power. God is an abusive parent who manipulates situations so he can punish us? ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2008, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886/20 "2008-03-03T03:29:08Z")
I’d have to say ‘ditto’ to those who say things would be pretty much as they are now. Millions of people who are no worse than anyone else suffering horrible illnesses and deaths while vastly worse people prosper; a world populated by people who seem especially designed for evil and malevolence, etc., etc. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-an-unloving-unjust-unfair-god-be-like/439886.md?page=2)