# What would be a pro-choice response to abortion survivors? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321 "2015-09-15T03:04:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/41 "2015-09-15T15:48:12Z")
This reminds me of the anti-vaccination advocates. Because a procedure that helps millions of people occasionally harms a few\*, some people argue that the procedure should be banned. It’s very sad to have to tell someone who suffered or has a disability because of a bad reaction to a vaccine that they were just one of the unlucky ones, but it’s better than hurting the millions who are protected by vaccines. I feel the same way about abortion. It’s very sad that in a few cases of accident or medical malpractice, abortion results in a living victim, but it’s better than causing untold suffering for the women who make the choice to have an abortion. I’m sorry for the suffering of these abortion survivors, and I would support any accommodations or disability rights that they want to advocate, but that in no way changes my fundamental support for abortion rights. \*I’m not talking about autism here, because there is no connection to vaccination. I’m talking about people with bad reactions, medical mistakes, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/42 "2015-09-15T16:00:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They usually don’t _get_ a chance to respond, because pro-choicers usually don’t get invited to events where these people testify. “I would like to have a woman who developed sepsis or massive hemorrhage due to an illegal abortion in the days before _Roe v. Wade_ respond to you. Unfortunately most of them are dead.” ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/43 "2015-09-15T16:24:51Z")
We still allow families to terminate life support despite cases where people regain conciseness. Should “pulling the plug” be stopped because sometimes, maybe, those patients were not as far gone as was thought? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/44 "2015-09-15T16:27:50Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > We still allow families to terminate life support despite cases where people regain conciseness. If I ever start being concise, I expect my SO to be so shocked she wouldn’t know _what_ to do. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/45 "2015-09-15T16:30:37Z")
> [@andros](#): > > If I ever start being concise, I expect my SO to be so shocked she wouldn’t know _what_ to do. > > 😃 :smack: I KNEW that didn’t look right… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/46 "2015-09-15T16:35:12Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > :smack: I KNEW that didn’t look right… …or you’re trying to stay on life support. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/47 "2015-09-15T16:41:39Z")
“I’m sorry that this terrible thing happened to you. In every culture, in every place and time throughout history, women have sought to terminate pregnancies for any number of reasons, regardless of whether it was legal or not for them to do so. History and scientific evidence show that when medical abortions performed by trained professionals are legal and accessible, that far fewer incidents such as that which you experienced occur. By helping to keep abortion legal and safe, we can work towards a world where no one else will have to go through the pain and suffering that you have.” ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/48 "2015-09-15T16:47:50Z")
Should unplanned children conceived as a result of contraceptive failure be used to advocate against contraception, or those that were conceived as the result of a regretted drunk sexual encounter come out against abstinence only education. The thing is that we all value those people and babies that have actually made it out into the world, but that doesn’t mean that we must by necessity value all potential babies. To do otherwise would morally require that all women become broodmares from the moment of puberty. So basically I would say that we value the person that she is, but that had she not survive we would not miss her any more than we do any of the billions of potential children who for one reason or another were never conceived. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/49 "2015-09-15T16:59:00Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > “I would like to have a woman who developed sepsis or massive hemorrhage due to an illegal abortion in the days before _Roe v. Wade_ respond to you. Unfortunately most of them are dead.” So a woman accidentally kills herself while trying to kill her unborn baby, and that’s _our_ fault? What next, is it our fault when somebody destroys themselves with krokodil because we didn’t give them heroin? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/50 "2015-09-15T17:05:07Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > “I would like to have a woman who developed sepsis or massive hemorrhage due to an illegal abortion in the days before _Roe v. Wade_ respond to you. Unfortunately most of them are dead.” That’s okay, the anti-choicers would say. She’s a slut anyhow and deserved it. If you think this is harsh, remember Rush and the birth control advocate from Georgetown. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/51 "2015-09-15T17:07:35Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > So a woman accidentally kills herself while trying to kill her unborn baby, and that’s _our_ fault? Yes. People of good faith can disagree about the philosophical issues about when human life begins. Human history has shown that women will seek to terminate pregnancies for a variety of reasons that are valid to the woman seeking the abortion. As a society we have an obligation to serve the needs of our people and since no definitive answer (scientific, religious, physiological, or philosophical) on when human life begins exists, we need to provide a safe way for women to get the services they are already letting us they need while allowing people who choose to not get those services their right to make that decision as well. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/52 "2015-09-15T17:24:46Z")
How do people affected by pro-life violence feel? The clinic workers who survive bombings, church goers who see doctors being shot to death, the mother who lost a child to a shooting in attempt to kill a pro-choice Politian? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/53 "2015-09-15T17:37:00Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > How do people affected by pro-life violence feel? The clinic workers who survive bombings, church goers who see doctors being shot to death, the mother who lost a child to a shooting in attempt to kill a pro-choice Politian? Well, following the “logic” used by the other side, perhaps we should consider shutting down churches? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/54 "2015-09-15T19:21:52Z")
Do pro choice people have a problem with a viewpoint like mine? I’m not religious but I think that morally abortion is wrong except in the cases of rape, incest, life of the mother, or a fetus with severe birth defects or similar thing. If you just make the choice to have unprotected sex and don’t meet one of these types of scenarios and then get pregnant and have an abortion because the pregnancy because it’s inconvenient I think that is morally wrong. At the same time I don’t think the government has the right to legislatively control a woman’s body except for maybe partial-birth whatever the term third trimester abortions that don’t meet the exceptions. I won’t really judge you or treat you different if you have one I just find it personally, morally wrong. Do pro-choice people have a problem with my position? I think that’s what’s so wrong with people with conservative social agendas. For example even if I find gay marriage immoral or in violation of my religious views ( In reality I’m not religious and don’t have a problem with gay marriage) I recognize that my views can’t morally be forced on the population as a whole on social issues like these. Obviously this doesn’t extend to something like rape or something I think that is a case where I believe it is universally wrong and punishment is deserved, but something like abortion is a personal choice and ultimately an issue over whether the government has a right to control a person’s body and to what extent. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/55 "2015-09-15T19:32:35Z")
Donald Trump would probably respond that while they individually are survivors, their mothers are _losers_, since they couldn’t effectively abort them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/56 "2015-09-15T19:35:06Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Do pro choice people have a problem with a viewpoint like mine? I’m not religious but I think that morally abortion is wrong except in the cases of rape, incest, life of the mother, or a fetus with severe birth defects or similar thing. If you just make the choice to have unprotected sex and don’t meet one of these types of scenarios and then get pregnant and have an abortion because the pregnancy because it’s inconvenient I think that is morally wrong. At the same time I don’t think the government has the right to legislatively control a woman’s body except for maybe partial-birth whatever the term third trimester abortions that don’t meet the exceptions. I won’t really judge you or treat you different if you have one I just find it personally, morally wrong. > > Do pro-choice people have a problem with my position? I think that’s what’s so wrong with people with conservative social agendas. For example even if I find gay marriage immoral or in violation of my religious views ( In reality I’m not religious and don’t have a problem with gay marriage) I recognize that my views can’t morally be forced on the population as a whole on social issues like these. Obviously this doesn’t extend to something like rape or something I think that is a case where I believe it is universally wrong and punishment is deserved, but something like abortion is a personal choice and ultimately an issue over whether the government has a right to control a person’s body and to what extent. Not really (except perhaps for third-trimester laws) – I don’t care how people feel, I care whether or not people advocate for government action to prevent women from controlling their bodies and reproduction and punishing them if they do so. If you just feel abortion is wrong, and advocate for women to not abort, then that’s okay with me – as long as you don’t advocate for the restriction of women’s rights to control their bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/57 "2015-09-15T19:36:53Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Do pro choice people have a problem with a viewpoint like mine? I’m not religious but I think that morally abortion is wrong except in the cases of rape, incest, life of the mother, or a fetus with severe birth defects or similar thing. If you just make the choice to have unprotected sex and don’t meet one of these types of scenarios and then get pregnant and have an abortion because the pregnancy because it’s inconvenient I think that is morally wrong. At the same time I don’t think the government has the right to legislatively control a woman’s body except for maybe partial-birth whatever the term third trimester abortions that don’t meet the exceptions. I won’t really judge you or treat you different if you have one I just find it personally, morally wrong. > > Do pro-choice people have a problem with my position? I think that’s what’s so wrong with people with conservative social agendas. For example even if I find gay marriage immoral or in violation of my religious views ( In reality I’m not religious and don’t have a problem with gay marriage) I recognize that my views can’t morally be forced on the population as a whole on social issues like these. Obviously this doesn’t extend to something like rape or something I think that is a case where I believe it is universally wrong and punishment is deserved, but something like abortion is a personal choice and ultimately an issue over whether the government has a right to control a person’s body and to what extent. You sound like a very young male who has had little experience with life. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/58 "2015-09-15T19:39:32Z")
I’m 30, married with 3 kids, maybe not as experienced as some, but I’m not a 19 year old, living in Mom’s basement if that’s what you’re driving at. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/59 "2015-09-15T19:46:07Z")
Pool, I think your position is the essence of being pro-choice: that each person can choose the line for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/60 "2015-09-15T20:04:02Z")
I thought abortions past the point of viability simply weren’t supposed to happen except when (a) the fetus was going to be DOA before, at, or shortly after birth anyway, or (b) if the life or health of the mother was in jeopardy. First thing I’d do when confronted with an abortion survivor is request proof that they were indeed aborted, yet survived. If they were aborted by a back-alley doc like in the case **Iggy** brought up in post #8, my answer would be that they were operated on by a quack and bad shit happened, just as would have been likely if they’d been operated on by a quack after they were born. If their mother had had an abortion in a licensed, properly-operated clinic, and they’d survived…well, do we have good documentation that such cases have happened? Because this is an area where it’s important to separate truth from bullshit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321.md?page=4)