# What would be a pro-choice response to abortion survivors? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321 "2015-09-15T03:04:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/61 "2015-09-15T20:30:31Z")
_“If at first you don’t succeed…”_ ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/62 "2015-09-15T20:59:32Z")
> [@pool](#): > > . . . Do pro-choice people have a problem with my position? . . . I had a little difficulty figuring out exactly what position that is. If I read your post correctly you seem to think that abortion is morally wrong…but would not ban it by law. If that’s so…then I (pro-choice) have no problem at all. I share exactly the same view regarding, say, getting drunk. It’s morally wrong…and should remain legal. I won’t do it, and I’ll even frown on people who do. And…so what? They don’t much care what I think, and all’s well. If that’s how you view abortion…I wish there were several million more just like you. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/63 "2015-09-15T21:20:10Z")
Personally, if confronted, I’d show as much sympathy as I can to someone who was possibly disabled due to a legal procedure. Plastic surgery kills or maims some people, but I think it should still be legal. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/64 "2015-09-15T22:11:51Z")
There are a lot of people all over the internet who hate their lives and wish they had never been born. Maybe they eventually change their minds. Maybe they never do and live a life full of misery, suffering from unimaginable pain. Then there a lot of people who are absolutely fine with their lives, but everyone else–including some pro-lifers–wishes they had never been born. Do these people give credence to the pro-choice argument? I don’t think they do. That’s how I would respond to an abortion survivor. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/65 "2015-09-15T22:13:58Z")
I would have the same sympathy for them that I would have for any victim of medical malpractice. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/66 "2015-09-15T22:20:42Z")
This pro-choice person would respond that it’s a horrible thing, but I truly believe you don’t decrease abortion by making it illegal. Making it illegal _does_ increase the chance of a horrible procedure going awry, leading to another abortion survivor. I think you decrease abortions by un-stigmatizing single motherhood, and by providing real support in the workplace for single parents. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/67 "2015-09-15T22:26:52Z")
> [@pool](#): > > …something like abortion is a personal choice… As \*\*IvoryTowerDenizen \*\*said, you are pro-choice. Pro-choice doesn’t mean pro-abortion, it means recognizing that this is a personal choice, and being willing to allow each woman to make it for herself. As long as that is how you feel, I have no problem with your position (I am a pro-choice woman). ---
**Author:** ![Grsz11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Grsz11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grsz11)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/68 "2015-09-15T22:58:36Z")
If they survived, they were far enough along to be viable. We’re talking about a tiny portion of abortions. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/69 "2015-09-15T23:06:26Z")
> [@Grsz11](#): > > If they survived, they were far enough along to be viable. We’re talking about a tiny portion of abortions. No, it doesn’t. The procedures were so botched that the pregnancies were never terminated. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/70 "2015-09-15T23:28:20Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’ve heard some abortion survivors stories. Not in so much as your POV tried to kill me, but God is the final say of who lives and dies, and God can and does override the wishes of the woman, and the ability and actions of the doctors as He sees fit. As such the argument of pro this or that doesn’t really apply, God is in control and does what He wants. “What God wants, God gets.” ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/71 "2015-09-15T23:36:29Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’ve heard some abortion survivors stories. Not in so much as your POV tried to kill me, but God is the final say of who lives and dies, and God can and does override the wishes of the woman, and the ability and actions of the doctors as He sees fit. As such the argument of pro this or that doesn’t really apply, God is in control and does what He wants. > [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > “What God wants, God gets.” I suppose you could say the same to an abortion survivor, but I never would. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/72 "2015-09-16T00:37:32Z")
My response to an abortion survivor would be “Three fifteen,” if he asked me what time it was and it was 3:15. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/73 "2015-09-16T11:39:07Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > “What God wants, God gets.” I hear it’s the same with Lola. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/74 "2015-09-16T16:06:08Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I thought abortions past the point of viability simply weren’t supposed to happen except when (a) the fetus was going to be DOA before, at, or shortly after birth anyway, or (b) if the life or health of the mother was in jeopardy. No, that is not the case. > [@](#): > > The study released Tuesday examined another under-studied group: pregnant women who seek late-term abortions. > > This population is small — about 15,000 abortions, or about 1.5 percent of the annual U.S. number, are performed after 20 weeks, wrote Diana Greene Foster and Katrina Kimport, authors of the study in Guttmacher Institute’s new Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health… > > The researchers found that women in general delayed getting abortions if they are unsure they are pregnant, aren’t sure they want an abortion, and are disagreeing with the baby’s father. [Cite](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/10/study-ids-reasons-for-late-term-abortions/?page=all). Nothing to do with fetal or maternal health. This backs up what was found in a 1988 Guttmacher study, which found that fetal health problems only figured in about 2% of late-term abortions. > [@](#): > > According to the Guttmacher institute, 1.1% of abortions, or 13,310 happen after 21 weeks, including roughly 1,700 after 25 weeks. > > A very old 1988 Guttmacher survey of abortions taking place after 16 weeks – still the most detailed study on the subject – listed these reasons for why an abortion was happening late in the gestational cycle: > 71% – Woman didn’t recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation > > 48% – Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion > > 33% – Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents > > 24% – Woman took time to decide to have an abortion > > 8% – Woman waited for her relationship to change > > 8% – Someone pressured woman not to have abortion > > 6% – Something changed after woman became pregnant > > 6% – Woman didn’t know timing is important > > 5% – Woman didn’t know she could get an abortion > > 2% – A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy > > 11% – Other [Cite](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-waldman/the-inconvenient-truths-f_b_210821.html). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/75 "2015-09-28T15:18:22Z")
I know people who were born to women who had had previous abortions. If these woman hadn’t had abortions, those people might not be alive. Let’s say a woman has a summer romance, finds out she’s pregnant, and has an abortion. Later she meets the love of her life and has three children. Even if she had given birth and then had the child adopted, her life would have been different, and those children might not have been born. What would you tell them? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/76 "2015-09-28T17:51:36Z")
I’ve never discussed this face to face with a survivor, and I’m not sure I’d say anything to them that might be upsetting. But to rabid pseudo-Christian Anti-choicers, I have pointed out that such events are proof-positive (speaking within their world-view, here) that if God chooses to prevent a death, he can do so. If they truly believe in the Omnipotence of God, then clearly it is not necessary for them to intervene. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/77 "2015-09-28T17:59:17Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > What would you tell them? “This other guy ‘came’ first.” ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/78 "2015-09-28T20:37:37Z")
There are similar arguments around adoption. Some adoptees have been abused by their adoptive parents - some to the point of disability. Some advocate for no adoption because of that. But no adoption means what? Institutional care? Forced parenting? And get rid of both abortion and adoption because its less than optimal for some people and then what? Do we really think the end result of that is going to be better overall? ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/79 "2015-09-28T23:44:43Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I know people who were born to women who had had previous abortions. If these woman hadn’t had abortions, those people might not be alive. > > Let’s say a woman has a summer romance, finds out she’s pregnant, and has an abortion. Later she meets the love of her life and has three children. Even if she had given birth and then had the child adopted, her life would have been different, and those children might not have been born. > > What would you tell them? I know a woman who conceived, aborted, and then conceived again within what would have been the gestation period of the first pregnancy. There’s no doubt whatsoever that J wouldn’t have been born had P’s first pregnancy continued. Interestingly (and tragically) P’s third pregnancy ended in a late term abortion after the baby was discovered to have a severe, unsurvivable birth defect, and she again conceived her next child, A, within the gestation period of the aborted child. There are people who believe that she should have allowed that third pregnancy run to term so “nature could take its course”, and who have told her so to her face, even though the “natural” death of the ill-fated infant would have cost A the chance of existence. Were the aborted pregnancies a thwarting of God’s will? Were the subsequent successful pregnancies God’s will too? Did He change His plan because those pesky abortionists screwed with what he originally intended? Or were those surviving children God’s end game all along? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/80 "2015-09-29T20:07:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, that is not the case. > [Cite](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/10/study-ids-reasons-for-late-term-abortions/?page=all). Nothing to do with fetal or maternal health. > > This backs up what was found in a 1988 Guttmacher study, which found that fetal health problems only figured in about 2% of late-term abortions. > > [Cite](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-waldman/the-inconvenient-truths-f_b_210821.html). > > Regards, > Shodan Let’s see: 1. A cite documenting the number of abortions after 20 weeks. 2. Another cite documenting the number of abortions after 21 and 25 weeks. 3. A third cite giving the distribution of reasons for abortions after **16 weeks** , where oddly enough, reasons relating to the health of either the mother or fetus aren’t yet a major factor. But **Shodan** conflates it with #2 to suggest that few of those abortions after 25 weeks had anything to do with health concerns. Since his cite notes that 2% of abortions after 16 weeks were due to fetal health problems, that means that if, of the roughly 1,500,000 abortions in 1988, at least 85,000 were after 16 weeks (which would hardly be surprising), his cite proves nothing, since 2% of 85,000 = 1,700. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321.md?page=5)