# What would be a pro-choice response to abortion survivors? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321 "2015-09-15T03:04:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/81 "2015-10-02T16:44:25Z")
I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Is it anything besides ‘your cite shows something I don’t like so it doesn’t count’? Late term abortions are not usually performed for reasons relating to fetal or maternal health. That’s what the data show. Congratulations on your ability to do arithmetic. Somewhat muted congratulations, since you appear to think there are three cites in my post while there were only two. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/82 "2015-10-02T17:11:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There have been abortion survivors (that is, fetuses who survived attempted abortions) who have now given testimony about their stories - typically pro-llfe arguments… > I’m not being sarcastic - this is a genuine question. How do pro-choicers usually respond? How do pro-choicers usually respond? I have no idea, it’s not a usual situation to be in. I have never been in that situation. But if someone were to tell me that he was the survivor of a botched abortion attempt, I might, depending on how it came up: Express sympathy Inquire for more details Inquire as to his take on abortion (surely he has a unique perspective) Change the subject Probably there are some other ways I might respond. fwiw, while I am “pro-choice” I oppose any abortion after viability unless the mother’s life is at risk and the fetus can’t be safely removed, or the fetus has a horrible congenital problem and isn’t expected to survive much after delivery. So I can’t imagine I would approve of whatever situation led to this person’s story. Also, fwiw, I am the result of birth-control failure, but I am in favor of birth control. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/83 "2015-10-02T17:13:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Is it anything besides ‘your cite shows something I don’t like so it doesn’t count’? > > Late term abortions are not usually performed for reasons relating to fetal or maternal health. That’s what the data show. > > Congratulations on your ability to do arithmetic. Somewhat muted congratulations, since you appear to think there are three cites in my post while there were only two. > > Regards, > Shodan I think he was trying to get at the distinction between late term abortions and extremely late term abortions. Only the latter yield survivors. And my understanding was that abortion providers generally won’t do extremely late term abortions unless there is a serious medical problem. If the mother says “I just found out” or “I changed my mind”, she will generally be turned away. Or so I have heard. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/84 "2015-10-02T22:00:39Z")
\*"Physical abuse or rape by a partner increased the likelihood of later abortion, with 13.7 percent of abortion patients who’d experienced second-trimester procedures (compared with 10 percent of women who hadn’t). Other disruptive life events — loss of a job or a partner, for example — were likewise linked to later abortions. Of abortion patients who’d experienced three disruptive events in the last year, 14.8 percent got later-term abortions. Experiencing disruptive events may prevent women from noticing their pregnancy early enough to get a first-trimester abortion, the researchers wrote in their report. Life chaos may also prevent women from accessing an abortion early. Alternatively, some women may have planned to continue their pregnancies until their circumstances changed, forcing them to seek an abortion later rather than earlier."\* > **[Study Reveals Who Gets Late-Term Abortions](https://www.livescience.com/17529-trimester-abortions.html)** > > Women who are younger, black or who have experienced more disruptions in life are more likely to get a later, and thus more risky, abortion. \*"My son’s condition could not have been detected earlier in the pregnancy. Far from lazy, I was conscientious about prenatal care. I received excellent medical attention from my obstetrician, one of the District’s best. Only at our 20-week sonogram were there warning signs, and only with a high-powered MRI did we discover the devastating truth of our son’s condition. He was missing the corpus callosum, the central connecting structure of the brain, and essentially one side of his brain. If he survived the pregnancy and birth, the doctors told us, he would have been born into a life of continuous seizures and near-constant pain. He might never have left the hospital. To help control the seizures, he would have needed surgery to remove more of what little brain matter he had. That was the reality for me and for my family. Meet, too, the many real women I know who belong to one of the saddest groups in the world: those carrying babies for whom there was no real hope and who made the heartbreaking decision to end their pregnancies for medical reasons. Meet the women among this group who had gotten, they thought, safely to the middle of pregnancy, who had been planning nurseries and filling baby registries, only to find they would need to plan a memorial service and to build, somehow, a life in aftermath."\* > **[Opinion | The face of late-term abortion](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-true-picture-of-the-women-who-face-late-term-abortion/2012/07/27/gJQAxSCjEX_story.html)** > > The right’s stereotype is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Futurist110](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e4f/32.png) [@Futurist110](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futurist110)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/85 "2015-10-03T23:34:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There have been abortion survivors (that is, fetuses who survived attempted abortions) who have now given testimony about their stories - typically pro-llfe arguments. > What is or would be the pro-choice response to such survivor testimonies? > > - > > “We’re sorry you are in an injured condition, but if the abortion had been effective you would not be suffering the way you are today?” > “Your suffering is acknowledged, but we cannot deny millions of women the ability to choose an abortion because of the suffering of a few survivors of botched abortion attempts?”\* > I’m not being sarcastic - this is a genuine question. How do pro-choicers usually respond? Frankly, I myself might respond by saying that if it wouldn’t have been for the Nazis and their rabid anti-Semitism, then I myself might never have been born. (Literally–after all, the Nazi German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941 caused my paternal grandfather and his family to flee hundreds of miles, if not more, eastwards to the interior of the Soviet Union, which in turn is where my paternal grandfather later met my paternal grandmother.) However, this certainly doesn’t mean that Nazism or anti-Semitism is acceptable by any means. Anyway, my point here is that the fact that something either directly or indirectly caused someone to exist does **not** necessarily mean that this thing itself was good by any means. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/86 "2015-10-05T02:09:06Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > we need to provide a safe way for women to get the services they are already letting us they need **while allowing people who choose to not get those services their right to make that decision as well**. Is there some problem with this part? ---
**Author:** ![Sputnikkk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Sputnikkk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sputnikkk)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/87 "2016-03-22T14:33:33Z")
When i first read the question for a few seconds I thought “survivors” meant babies the some how survived being aborted— what would their response be? haha ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/88 "2016-03-22T16:47:15Z")
Yet another abortion debate where the father of the unborn child is held completely blameless. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/89 "2016-03-22T17:58:09Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Yet another abortion debate where the father of the unborn child is held completely blameless. Most pro-choice people don’t “blame” women for choosing an abortion when birth control fails. So why wouldn’t the father be “blameless” as well, unless he raped the mother? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/90 "2016-03-22T18:18:35Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I thought abortions past the point of viability simply weren’t supposed to happen except when (a) the fetus was going to be DOA before, at, or shortly after birth anyway, or (b) if the life or health of the mother was in jeopardy. > > First thing I’d do when confronted with an abortion survivor is request proof that they were indeed aborted, yet survived. > > If they were aborted by a back-alley doc like in the case **Iggy** brought up in post #8, my answer would be that they were operated on by a quack and bad shit happened, just as would have been likely if they’d been operated on by a quack after they were born. > > If their mother had had an abortion in a licensed, properly-operated clinic, and they’d survived…well, do we have good documentation that such cases have happened? Because this is an area where it’s important to separate truth from bullshit. A bit late in my response… The doctor referenced in my post #8 was [Dr. Abu Hayat](http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/23/nyregion/east-village-doctor-convicted-of-performing-illegal-abortion.html), a duly licensed physician. He had his office at 9 Avenue A in the East Village in New York City. This was not a back alley procedure by a unlicensed abortionist. He was, however, grossly negligent by the standards of medical practice. One patient [died of infection and perforated uterus](http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/05/nyregion/doctor-describes-death-of-a-girl-who-suffered-botched-abortion.html) reportedly attributed to use of dirty surgical instruments by Dr Hayat. If calling him a quack makes you feel better, so be it. But Ana Rodriguez survived an illegal late term abortion performed by a licensed physician in a real medical clinic. How real was his clinic? Must not have been a properly run clinic? Actually his clinic was a member of the [National Abortion Federation](http://prochoice.org/). At least his license was revoked. Checked the [website on the NY State Department of Health](http://w3.health.state.ny.us/opmc/factions.nsf/physiciansearch?openform) and search the name of Abu Hayat for results. > [@](#): > > The Review Board sustained the Hearing Committee’s February 26, 1992 penalty and determination finding the physician guilty of negligence; moral unfitness;violation of a State law governing the practice of medicine;patient abandonment;fraudulent practice;excessive testing and failure to maintain accurate records involving patients seeking abortions or abortion follow-up. The physician’s New York State medical license was previously summarily suspended on November 22, 1991. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/91 "2016-03-22T18:59:26Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > A bit late in my response… > > The doctor referenced in my post #8 was [Dr. Abu Hayat](http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/23/nyregion/east-village-doctor-convicted-of-performing-illegal-abortion.html), a duly licensed physician. He had his office at 9 Avenue A in the East Village in New York City. This was not a back alley procedure by a unlicensed abortionist. > > He was, however, grossly negligent by the standards of medical practice. One patient [died of infection and perforated uterus](http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/05/nyregion/doctor-describes-death-of-a-girl-who-suffered-botched-abortion.html) reportedly attributed to use of dirty surgical instruments by Dr Hayat. > > If calling him a quack makes you feel better, so be it. But Ana Rodriguez survived an illegal late term abortion performed by a licensed physician in a real medical clinic. > > How real was his clinic? Must not have been a properly run clinic? Actually his clinic was a member of the [National Abortion Federation](http://prochoice.org/). > > At least his license was revoked. Checked the [website on the NY State Department of Health](http://w3.health.state.ny.us/opmc/factions.nsf/physiciansearch?openform) and search the name of Abu Hayat for results. Whether or not he was a “quack” he was not practicing medicine appropriately. He seems to have racked up a lot of killed/damaged patients due to his failure to do the job properly. (Which includes both sterilizing instruments and making reasonably sure of the age of the fetus before attempting to abort it.) I am pretty pro-choice, but I have no problems with a guy like that being shut down. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/92 "2016-03-22T19:03:03Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What is or would be the pro-choice response to such survivor testimonies? The simple answer is, there is no simple answer. Being pro-choice doesn’t mean one necessarily agrees with all of the decisions to abort any more than being pro-legalization means that one necessarily approves of all the decisions people make about where and when to smoke pot. Personally, I’m pro-choice precisely BECAUSE I’m not in a place to be able to make a complicated decision without the information that the mother and doctor have, nor do I have to bear the moral, ethical, economic, or social consequences of those decisions. Consider a situation where a doctor has good reason to think a child has a low chance of survival (say 10%) and it risks the health of the mother significantly (say, less than 50% if they terminate, but nearly 100% if they do), so they attempt to terminate the pregnancy but the child ends up defying the odds. Given 10% odds, on average 1 in 10 of those kids in that sort of situation will survive. It’s a crappy situation to be in and it sucks if that kid grows up with injuries as a result, but in that situation, if I were the husband or family member charged with making that choice, I’d do the same thing. And even for the vast majority of pro-choice supporter, I’m sure they could fabricate some situation they’d find morally reprehensible to abort but the child survived anyway, but they’re willing to accept those rare situations to protect it for the much more likely situations that it needs to remain as a real option on the table and having legislation just muddies those decisions even more in what is already likely a difficult situation. And, really, this is how rights are. It really, really sucks when people misuse their rights and someone gets hurt. For instance, we protect free speech, and it’s one of the most sacred tenants of Western Representative Democracies, but part of that comes with the fact that some assholes are going to use it to spread hatred, racism, falsehoods, etc. Sometimes free speech can lead to some pretty horrible things, like bringing together hate groups, unintentionally (or maybe not so unintentionally) leading to violence. I will absolutely express my sympathy to people who have had to deal with hate and it’s consequences, but if their response is to argue that we need to put limits of free speech, even understanding their pain, I just cannot agree with that conclusion. Abortion survival stories are fundamentally an appeal to emotion. Yes, abortions sometimes lead to injuries to child and/or mother. Sometimes, even when all medically goes well, it can have long term emotional, social, or economic consequences leading to serious depression, fracture families, etc. But, as with all rights, it comes with an onus to use it responsibly, carefully thinking over whether that’s really the right decision for a given situation, and the ownership of whatever consequences, foreseen or not, may result. So, yeah, it sucks that sometimes it leads to suffering, and it’s impossible to have an objective law, so we have to trust people to use their own moral judgment. ---
**Author:** ![truthseeker3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e68b1a/32.png) [@truthseeker3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthseeker3)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/93 "2016-03-26T03:13:59Z")
> [@Eliahna](#): > > I know a woman who conceived, aborted, and then conceived again within what would have been the gestation period of the first pregnancy. There’s no doubt whatsoever that J wouldn’t have been born had P’s first pregnancy continued. > > Interestingly (and tragically) P’s third pregnancy ended in a late term abortion after the baby was discovered to have a severe, unsurvivable birth defect, and she again conceived her next child, A, within the gestation period of the aborted child. There are people who believe that she should have allowed that third pregnancy run to term so “nature could take its course”, and who have told her so to her face, even though the “natural” death of the ill-fated infant would have cost A the chance of existence. > > Were the aborted pregnancies a thwarting of God’s will? Were the subsequent successful pregnancies God’s will too? Did He change His plan because those pesky abortionists screwed with what he originally intended? Or were those surviving children God’s end game all along? It looks like this thread is cooling down, but I would like to disagree with the apparent suggestion that there’s something illogical about valuing the lives of P’s first and third babies when J and A clearly benefitted from their deaths. Wikipedia’s page on [organ trafficking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_trade) raises concerns about criminal networks kidnapping and murdering people for their organs. Figures aren’t given - they only say that it’s “increasingly” common - but presumably, there are at least a handful of people who are alive because of ill-gotten organs. I think I could reasonably be glad that such people are alive but still think that killing people for their organs is wrong and ought to carry some sort of legal penalty. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/94 "2016-03-27T00:22:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Velocity View Post > What is or would be the pro-choice response to such survivor testimonies? > > The simple answer is, there is no simple answer. Being pro-choice doesn’t mean one necessarily agrees with all of the decisions to abort any more than being pro-legalization means that one necessarily approves of all the decisions people make about where and when to smoke pot. Personally, I’m pro-choice precisely BECAUSE I’m not in a place to be able to make a complicated decision without the information that the mother and doctor have, nor do I have to bear the moral, ethical, economic, or social consequences of those decisions. Agree. Pro-choice means people get to make their own choices. You don’t like abortion, don’t have one. I really doubt any testimony about a so-called “abortion survivor” is going to stop any woman from seeking a first-trimester abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/95 "2016-03-27T10:52:44Z")
Abortion is a complicated issue and many people find the issue difficult to reconcile with other views. No matter how you discuss it something dies in an abortion. However that doesnt mean a person is totally against somone’s ability to chose. If anything it’s a wakeup call for couples to slow down and take better precautions with birth control. It’s easy to be horny, hot, and drunk and things get out of hand. Life isnt like the movies where anything goes. Personally I wish their were more movies like “[Knocked Up](Dale Eldred)” where a miscommunication about birth control after a drunken one night stand leads to a pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/96 "2016-03-27T15:34:54Z")
There are several countries in Europe that have reduced the abortion rate to pretty close to zero. None of these countries have bans or restrictions on abortion. What they have is excellent programs of readily available, affordable contraception and comprehensive sex education in schools. Re: the topic of the thread, abortion survivors, these are only going to be from abortions performed in the third trimester (24+ weeks), which aren’t very common. Making abortion more widely available would almost certainly increase the rate of first-trimester abortions vs. later abortions. If there was a free clinic on every corner women wouldn’t have to try to scrape up funds and arrange for travel to the only clinic in the state and they could get it done as soon as possible. If schools taught better sex education, women wouldn’t be wondering if they were pregnant for months; they’d know. Or perhaps they’d know how to prevent it in the first place. Too bad the GOP is hell-bent on blocking access to contraception and early abortions by defunding Planned Parenthood. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/97 "2016-03-27T17:09:53Z")
How does the number of abortion survivors compare with the number of newborns found in dumpsters? ---
**Author:** ![truthseeker3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e68b1a/32.png) [@truthseeker3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthseeker3)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/98 "2016-03-28T02:52:03Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > Agree. Pro-choice means people get to make their own choices. You don’t like abortion, don’t have one. I really doubt any testimony about a so-called “abortion survivor” is going to stop any woman from seeking a first-trimester abortion. Yeah, I’m not terribly impressed with the bit of trickery reported in the OP, but I’m even less impressed with the prochoice motto of “Againt abortion? Then don’t have one!” like “Against murder? Then don’t kill anyone… or get upset if Planned Parenthood wants to use public funding for that purpose.” ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/99 "2016-03-28T03:59:24Z")
> [@truthseeker3](#): > > Yeah, I’m not terribly impressed with the bit of trickery reported in the OP, but I’m even less impressed with the prochoice motto of “Againt abortion? Then don’t have one!” like “Against murder? Then don’t kill anyone… or get upset if Planned Parenthood wants to use public funding for that purpose.” What? As soon as you compare abortion with “murder”, you accept an artificially fabricated premise as fact and now you’re firmly in the anti-abortion camp. That no such equivalence exists is the whole crux of the argument. And Planned Parenthood, just like everyone else, is supposed to get public funding on the basis that they support a rational public interest, not on the basis of adherence to some theocratic crackpot dogmatism. The entire OP is ridiculous. What would be a pro-choice response to someone who exists because a condom broke? What would be a pro-choice response to someone who exists only because his mom got drunk and decided to have sex with that sailor at the bar that night? “Yay liquor!” “Yay for promiscuous sluts – they gave me life!” :rolleyes: And if babies get damaged by incompetent abortion procedures then maybe we need better medical practices, and maybe one way to achieve that is to quit allowing theocratic lunatics to push abortion off into the fringes of medical practice. The whole premise of the OP is categorically absurd. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321/100 "2016-03-30T18:11:10Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Planned Parenthood’s main purpose is providing contraception. Along with health education & medical care for women–& some men. Those who want to close Planned Parenthood because it does terminate pregnancies also want to end all the other services offered. Maybe some of us want those services offered, especially at tax payer support, to be offered by someone other than an abortion clinic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-a-pro-choice-response-to-abortion-survivors/731321.md?page=6)