# What would be the best country for a fed-up American to move to? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2019, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036 "2019-05-16T04:19:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/61 "2019-05-19T00:31:40Z")
😛 ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/62 "2019-05-19T01:57:59Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Survive, yes; in some of the more rural parts of the country you may even be able to get a farm with a decent chunk of land. But don’t expect an American-sized house and car in an urban area for that money. > > A hobby-friend of my Crazy Aunt is Finnish. Often, she doesn’t say a word beyond “hello ladies” and “see you next day”. One time the conversation turned to immigration and she said “by your standards I’m super-closemouthed. By Finnish standards I’m crazy: I’ve been known to answer questions from strangers.” Of course they look at your feet. On a Friday afternoon, they’re all naked in the sauna: whaddya think their gonna look at? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/63 "2019-05-19T02:29:15Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Of course they look at your feet. On a Friday afternoon, they’re all naked in the sauna: whaddya think their gonna look at? Picture going over to someone’s house for coffee. Just the two of you. The conversation might run something like this: “Hello.” “Hello.” [later] “Would you like some more coffee?” “Yes, please.” [more time passes] “See you.” “Goodbye.” ---
**Author:** ![bb49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b38774/32.png) [@bb49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bb49)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/64 "2019-05-19T03:51:19Z")
If you have medical issues I sure wouldn’t recommend Canada, unless you are in one of our few large cities. Our medical system here is falling apart with month and year long waits to see a specialist. I live in a city of just over 100,000 and about 20,000 people here don’t have a family doctor. If you need to see a doctor, then go real early in the morning to a clinic and line up. Where would I go? Well after returning from an extended vacation in Mexico and unfortunately coming down with a very serious illness while there, I was blown away by the quality of professional medical expertise that I experienced. And it was extremely affordable. Three days in a small private hospital and the total bill came to under $1500 Cdn. And no waiting when I went to the ER. In Canada that wait could have been half an hour to three hours. My Mexican wait to see a Doctor in the ER was under two minutes. Our medical system is in desperate need of an overhaul. But if you’re healthy, come on over. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/65 "2019-05-19T04:15:40Z")
I’d think Canada would be the most comfortable fit for American expats, but it’s not particularly easy to emigrate there legally. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/66 "2019-05-19T04:54:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Thailand. That’s where I’m going. > > In 8 years. I came in specifically to mention Thailand, having lived there twice myself for a total of 24 years and 7 months. Thing is, it’s so crowded with Westerners now, and the Thai government has finally started getting sick enough of foreigners to start tightening up immigration. The result is a lot of fed-up Westerners moving on. I was not one of the fed-up ones, but I sure knew plenty of them. Still more than enough to go around though. The New Frontier in that region for Western expats is starting to be Cambodia, but it lacks the relative safety of Thailand. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/67 "2019-05-19T05:41:07Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I’d think Canada would be the most comfortable fit for American expats, but it’s not particularly easy to emigrate there legally. Cape Breton Island seems to be inviting Americans: [QQSLOT ☑️ Situs Resmi Games Slot Berlisensi Pagcor Dan Curacao Hadir Di Indonesia](http://cbiftrumpwins.com/#intro) ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/68 "2019-05-19T07:25:00Z")
Why is Trump spending all that money on that stupid wall? If he set up a relocation fund for every democrat that ever said they’d leave if he were elected, he could be dictator for life. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/69 "2019-05-19T09:39:53Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Picture going over to someone’s house for coffee. Just the two of you. The conversation might run something like this: > > “Hello.” > > “Hello.” > > [later] > > “Would you like some more coffee?” > > “Yes, please.” > > [more time passes] > > “See you.” > > “Goodbye.” Picture going over to someones house to use the sauna. The conversation will run something like that… And the behind the spoken reserve, to really get to know somebody, you have to get paralytically drunk. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/70 "2019-05-19T14:17:47Z")
For OP the important thing is to look for culture, climate etc. that he will enjoy. Note that Thailand is simply _too hot_ during March-April-May. If your plans involve annual trips to U.S. or wherever, you may want to schedule the trips to avoid the worst season for climate. Low cost of living is a plus, even for Americans with good savings or pension. I think Thailand and Costa Rica have roughly comparable cost of living. Costa Rica is shown in lists as being significantly less corrupt than Thailand. On a [Democracy Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index) Costa Rica scores above the U.S.A. (!) while Thailand, already low, has plummeted further in recent years. But the bad corruption and democracy scores needn’t affect a retired foreigner in Thailand much, especially if he has politeness and adequate funding. OTOH, if you’re leaving U.S.A. because you find its politics disheartening you may not want to move to another country with bad politics. There are several different reasons why Thai politics don’t disturb me like U.S. politics do. For one thing, _many “ignorant” Thais seem better informed than Americans about their politics!_ Here we elect criminals to Parliament _because_ they are criminals, and therefore more qualified to fight with the criminal M.P.'s from other provinces for the betterment of our own province! :smack: OTOH, many Americans voted for the criminal Trump and still don’t even know he’s a criminal. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I came in specifically to mention Thailand, having lived there twice myself for a total of 24 years and 7 months. Thing is, it’s so crowded with Westerners now, and the Thai government has finally started getting sick enough of foreigners to start tightening up immigration… > > The New Frontier in that region for Western expats is starting to be Cambodia, but it lacks the relative safety of Thailand. So I recently pulled ahead of the famous **Siam Sam** for total time spent in the Kingdom. Don’t know whether to be proud of that, or ashamed. 🙂 Cambodia is much more corrupt than Thailand, scores much lower on the Democracy Index, and has _much_ lower standard-of-living and wage levels. (Whether that’s a good thing or bad thing may depend on your plans.) Thailand, for all its faults, has developed rapidly and is much more prosperous than Cambodia. Not long ago, it was hard to find Western-style toilets up-country and some of the pleasant resorts lacked electricity. Now Thailand is almost _too_ comfortable to seem fun and exotic! If I were advising a youngish adventurer, Cambodia might be a good option. But for a retiree, just the superior healthcare in Thailand may be a decisive factor. I’m not sure the Thai government is competent enough to have a comprehensible purpose for its “tightening immigration.” Anyway, retirement visas are still doable. To avoid hijacking this thread, send me a PM if you wonder about a retirement visa for Thailand. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/71 "2019-05-19T14:38:08Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Could you really survive in Portugal for 13,200 euros per year? That really seems like a low number to me. If so it may get added to my list of potential retirement locations. The linked article is talking about living in the Algarve district, with is on Portugal’s southern border. It’s a beautiful area, but pretty rural. Lots of Moorish influence in the architecture. Were one to choose to live in Lisbon, the cost of living would be much higher. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/72 "2019-05-20T09:09:51Z")
Just to add that I’ve met many chatty Finns but they were all musicians so are likely outliers. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/73 "2019-05-20T12:27:24Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I’d go to Italy - I mean, their politics is nuts, but it has always been thus, and the food, culture, history, wine, landscape, weather and people more than make up for it. About the worst choice in Europe, I say, unless beauty and food is _all_ you care about. If you were fleeing America because of Trump, be aware that the Lega in power here thinks he’s a great guy and they are doing his best to copy any racist or misogynist law the Orange One comes up with. I can assure you “crazy politics” get very old if you’re actually trying to make a living. Wages are low, unemployment is high and the economy dead in the water. Oh, and whenever you need to get anything done (driver’s license, passport, taxes etc), be prepare to queue. A client of mine recently spent nine hours total queuing to get his own and his baby son’s passports renewed. Basically, you’re constantly wading upstream, never getting anywhere. It’s tiring. I have lived here for about ten years, and I do realise there is much to love, but it’s not the same as when you’re on holiday. My solution (if residence permits where not an issue): The Netherlands, Denmark or Sweden. And with your high wages, buy a holiday house in Puglia, Calabria or Sicily. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/74 "2019-05-20T12:38:57Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > If I were advising a youngish adventurer, Cambodia might be a good option. I would say that Ukraine is someplace a young American who is looking for an incredibly affordable, welcoming and geographically central place to try their hand would be well worth checking out. The younger people are desperate to learn English, (which someone with a university education could certainly parlay into a career) the cost of living is, by Western European or American standards practically free and you are a 2 hour, $25 dollar flight away from a well over a dozen other countries if you want to take a little vacation when you get tired of paying 75 cents for a liter of beer in a bar. Not sure about the details of getting a work visa or residency permit, but my instinct is that it would not be an issue, in particular if you can show that you have a little bit of $$$ in the bank. The Ukrainians seem to sincerely love America and Americans, in particular the younger generations, and the streets in the larger cities that I have visited are safe and peaceful, although I suppose with Putin and the neighboring Russians, things can change fast. Still, it is a facinating country with a complex history and a rich mix of cultural influences that is eager to embrace Western Democratic ideals and political reforms. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/75 "2019-05-20T15:52:41Z")
Immigration is definitely a significant issue for Americans moving to Canada, but far from an insurmountable one, given the right mix of skills and other factors. Thousands do it every year, and the higher priority now being placed on language proficiency gives them an edge. I remembered seeing a nice sweet story about an American couple who moved to Nova Scotia and Googled it. I think this is it: [‘We made it’: U.S. couple fleeing Trump arrive in Halifax](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/u-s-couple-move-to-canada-after-trump-elected-halifax-1.4479375) In the process I also found these: [These Americans moved to Canada for political reasons. They don’t regret it](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/19/americans-move-canada-trump-bush-immigration) [About 2,000 more Americans than normal have moved to Canada since Trump’s election](https://globalnews.ca/news/4396938/move-to-canada-donald-trump/) [The American Dream has moved to Canada](https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-american-dream-moved-to-canada/) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/76 "2019-05-22T23:55:54Z")
Hey, didn’t Canada have a handy scoring system that people could check online, to see what their chances were at being welcomed with open arms? I filled one out a few years ago, and scored pretty high (due to being an older, educated, healthy teacher). If only they’d asked about my prowess at curling… ooh, maybe I could mention it at the border, or better yet, just happen to be carrying a curling stone (20kg)(=44lbs). If only Canada was warmer than the northern USofA. I’m sick of shoveling. ---
**Author:** ![glaucon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@glaucon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glaucon)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/77 "2019-05-23T03:46:38Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > I would say that Ukraine is someplace a young American who is looking for an incredibly affordable, welcoming and geographically central place to try their hand would be well worth checking out. While I’m sure Ukraine has many pleasant aspects it’s worth mentioning that since 2014 something close to a war followed by a very tense stand off has been taking place in Eastern Crimea and all parts of Crimea have the potential for civil unrest. This is the travel advisory from the NZ Govt I’m sure most other govts have something similar [https://safetravel.govt.nz/ukraine](https://safetravel.govt.nz/ukraine) . ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/78 "2019-05-23T04:21:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Just to add that I’ve met many chatty Finns but they were all musicians so are likely outliers. I have seen a recent survey that named Finns as the happiest people in the world overall. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036/79 "2019-05-23T11:47:17Z")
> [@glaucon](#): > > While I’m sure Ukraine has many pleasant aspects it’s worth mentioning that since 2014 something close to a war followed by a very tense stand off has been taking place in Eastern Crimea and all parts of Crimea have the potential for civil unrest. > > This is the travel advisory from the NZ Govt I’m sure most other govts have something similar [https://safetravel.govt.nz/ukraine](https://safetravel.govt.nz/ukraine) . And speaking as a Jew who knows a lot of Ukrainian expats, I wouldn’t feel safe there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-best-country-for-a-fed-up-american-to-move-to/834036.md?page=3)