# What would be the downside to Having Hunter Biden testify at the impeachment trial? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 24, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876 "2020-01-24T01:48:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/41 "2020-01-24T16:12:12Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Trump is being accused of extorting a foreign government for personal gain. Not of hiring his own family to serve in his own administration. So Trump _is_ getting away with everything that Biden has gotten away with. We’re not talking about leaning on a foreign government to ferret out corruption when we are giving them billions of dollars in aid. We are talking about corruptly extorting a private university to give hundreds of thousands of dollars in benefits to an unqualified private student because his father abused the powers of his office to gain that admission. See how special pleadings work? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/42 "2020-01-24T16:23:21Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/43 "2020-01-24T16:39:51Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You think Hunter Biden got the job on merit? That he interviewed with all of the other qualified candidates and came out on top? Do you believe that this is the process for appointments to boards of directors? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/44 "2020-01-24T16:41:21Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Biden’s kid who is a complete fuckup: no training or education in the energy field, has a crack cocaine issue, gets strippers pregnant and abandons his child. Are you suggesting that if his name was Hunter Ultravires he would have gotten that job? So there is at least smoke there…and it’s from a foreign power like Ukraine who depends on us for military aid. And getting your kid a job cannot be more personal. It has not even a fig leaf cover like Trump suggesting he was ferreting out corruption. This is a straight up personal political favor, after Biden had threatened to previously withhold aid. There’s no evidence of such a favor. I have no doubt that Hunter got his job because of his last name, but no evidence has presented that Joe Biden helped his son get this job. It’s not Joe’s fault that his son has his name. And yes, this is a corrupt practice, but barring evidence that Joe stepped in to get his son this job, the corruption lies with Hunter and Burisma (the latter of which the Obama administration wanted investigated by Ukraine due to their corruption), not with Joe Biden. > [@](#): > > Now, I don’t think Biden is corrupt. I’m just saying that this is par for the course. Perhaps it shouldn’t be. But everyone not named Trump gets away with these sorts of things all the time and throughout history…that is unless you define the evil in such a specific way that only Trump is guilty of it. I’m all for impeaching Hunter Biden and the board of Burisma, should they be elected President. But I’m not sure how this is a defense of Trump’s obvious crimes. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/45 "2020-01-24T16:44:27Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > There is as much evidence of criminality against Joe Biden as there is against Donald Trump. All you have is smoke and inferences. This is just colossally and obviously false. The Trump administration’s own records and even own personnel speak of a quid-pro-quo, investigation-for-congressionally-approved-aid-and-visits scheme that was directed and personally benefiting Trump rather than any legitimate US interests. It’s just sad that you’re so okay with this. It’s not okay. Trump really is worse than past presidents. He’s not doing the same things, he’s doing worse things, and he’s doing worse things out in the open. Not everything is the same, and not everyone is the same. Some people are actually worse, and have actually done worse things, and Trump is one of those people, by the words and records of his own administration. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/46 "2020-01-24T16:49:20Z")
“As I said on the phone, I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.” - Bill Taylor text to Gordon Sondland (September 9, 2019) Where’s the Joe Biden version of anything like that? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/47 "2020-01-24T17:23:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is just colossally and obviously false. The Trump administration’s own records and even own personnel speak of a quid-pro-quo, investigation-for-congressionally-approved-aid-and-visits scheme that was directed and personally benefiting Trump rather than any legitimate US interests. > > It’s just sad that you’re so okay with this. It’s not okay. Trump really is worse than past presidents. He’s not doing the same things, he’s doing worse things, and he’s doing worse things out in the open. Not everything is the same, and not everyone is the same. Some people are actually worse, and have actually done worse things, and Trump is one of those people, by the words and records of his own administration. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > “As I said on the phone, I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.” - Bill Taylor text to Gordon Sondland (September 9, 2019) > > Where’s the Joe Biden version of anything like that? When “people in the administration” like Bill Taylor say things, that is not evidence; that is simply their opinion. And many of these people are Never Trumpers. But put that aside. We don’t allow opinion evidence in criminal or civil trials because it is unreliable and ultimately meaningless. The only people’s opinions who count are the jurors, in this case the senators. If my neighbor is charged with murder, I can testify that I saw him come home at 2:30 a.m., dump a bag of trash in the bin, and sneak around the back of his house. What I cannot testify to is that “I think he must have just murdered someone.” And why is that? Because I cannot substitute myself for the jury. I can tell them the who, what, where, and when, but my opinion does not mean anything. So it really doesn’t matter if you can pick out a few people who think they believe that they know what Trump was reaaaally doing. What matters is hard evidence which 100 senators will determine the meaning of. And there is no hard evidence. Just inferences. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/48 "2020-01-24T17:24:53Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Yes Joe got him the job, the same way G.W. Bush got into Harvard because of his dad. Here on earth, there’s a difference between a powerful person calling up someone and arm twisting them to do somethiing nice for their son, and people lining up to do favors for those connected to powerful people. That’s the difference between privilege and corruption. > [@](#): > > But if we get all Trumpy about it then we have to say that these fathers (along with all other powerful fathers throughout history) committed bribery or extortion or abused their power and charge them under the federal bribery statute. This sentence is a powerful example of Trump derangement syndrome. Baseless accusations against unnamed people who don’t like the corrupt President, a total disconnection from reality, conspiracy theories and threats, and probably some wild gesticulating too (but I can’t prove that).\ > [@](#): > > When “people in the administration” like Bill Taylor say things, that is not evidence; that is simply their opinion. And many of these people are Never Trumpers. More of the same. I guess the definition of “Never Trumper” includes a non-partisan person with personal and professional integrity. Trump can’t stand that shit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/49 "2020-01-24T17:27:36Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > When “people in the administration” like Bill Taylor say things, that is not evidence; that is simply their opinion. And many of these people are Never Trumpers. Mulvaney is not a “Never Trumper”. Neither was the official White House transcript of the call. > [@](#): > > But put that aside. We don’t allow opinion evidence in criminal or civil trials because it is unreliable and ultimately meaningless. The only people’s opinions who count are the jurors, in this case the senators. Exactly – that’s why it’s important they call witnesses who were involved (Bolton, Pompeo, Barr, Mulvaney, and others), but also heed the White House’s own record of the call, which clearly lays out Trump’s intentions to bribe/extort Ukraine for his own personal political gain. > [@](#): > > And there is no hard evidence. Just inferences. There’s a mountain of hard evidence, including the words and records of the administration. You just appear to be unable, or uninterested, in seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/50 "2020-01-24T17:31:24Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > We’re not talking about leaning on a foreign government to ferret out corruption when we are giving them billions of dollars in aid. We are talking about corruptly extorting a private university to give hundreds of thousands of dollars in benefits to an unqualified private student because his father abused the powers of his office to gain that admission. > > See how special pleadings work? I believe that’s called, ‘changing the subject’. Which is a whole other thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/51 "2020-01-24T17:47:41Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > When “people in the administration” like Bill Taylor say things, that is not evidence; that is simply their opinion. And many of these people are Never Trumpers. So testimony that implicates Trump is only acceptable from pro-Trumpers, but we know Bill Taylor is a never Trumper because his testimony implicates Trump. That’s some catch that catch 22. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/52 "2020-01-24T19:23:39Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > When “people in the administration” like Bill Taylor say things, that is not evidence; that is simply their opinion. And many of these people are Never Trumpers. Never Trumpers who [donated a million dollars](https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/trump-million-dollar-donors-ambassador-gordon-sondland) to the Trump inaugural committee (which then made its way into [Trump’s personal wallet](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/22/dc-sues-trump-organization-alleging-inflated-inaugural-party-bills-102123))? You must have a pretty loose definition of Never Trumper. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/53 "2020-01-24T21:31:41Z")
Dead issue. Lindsay Graham will not support a Hunter Biden subpoena: > **[Lindsey Graham will oppose subpoena of Hunter Biden](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/479779-lindsey-graham-will-oppose-subpoena-of-hunter-biden/)** > > Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) says he will vote against a motion to subpoena Hunter Biden if a majority of colleagues agree next week that additional witnesses and doc… ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/54 "2020-01-24T21:32:58Z")
Duplicate. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/55 "2020-01-24T22:29:38Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Dead issue. Lindsay Graham will not support a Hunter Biden subpoena Called it. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Republican calls to investigate Biden are no different than their calls to lock up Hillary. They’re just empty noise. The Republicans have nothing to back it up. The Republicans can’t to go to trial because at a trial, they’d be forced to show their hand and everyone would see they’ve been bluffing. > > There’s no evidence against Hunter Biden. There’s no evidence against Joe Biden. There’s no evidence against Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. The Republicans are lying and lying and lying and lying. And they’re going to keep on lying. Because there’s no penalty for lying as long as they never have to enter a courtroom. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/56 "2020-01-24T22:52:20Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > ETA: do you think George W Bush got into Harvard on his merits? I thought W got in on a rowing scholarship. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/57 "2020-01-25T00:33:56Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I thought W got in on a rowing scholarship. George W. Bush went to Yale, not Harvard, for his undergraduate degree (as did George H.W. Bush and Prescott Bush, and certainly that family history almost guaranteed him a place at Yale). As far as I know, there was no rowing scholarship involved, and I don’t think Yale gives athetic scholarships anyway. He completed an MBA degree at Harvard. Certainly the Bush name helped him with admissions, but a Yale degree would have helped, too (even one with a lackluster GPA). In any event, Harvard likes to admit the children of world leaders – keeps Harvard in the middle of world affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/58 "2020-01-25T00:39:58Z")
Joe Biden is very paternalistic and will get wound up seeing his son get besmirched in someone else’s trial. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/59 "2020-01-25T02:52:23Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > When “people in the administration” like Bill Taylor say things, that is not evidence; that is simply their opinion. And many of these people are Never Trumpers. > > But put that aside. We don’t allow opinion evidence in criminal or civil trials because it is unreliable and ultimately meaningless. The only people’s opinions who count are the jurors, in this case the senators. > > If my neighbor is charged with murder, I can testify that I saw him come home at 2:30 a.m., dump a bag of trash in the bin, and sneak around the back of his house. What I cannot testify to is that “I think he must have just murdered someone.” And why is that? Because I cannot substitute myself for the jury. I can tell them the who, what, where, and when, but my opinion does not mean anything. > > So it really doesn’t matter if you can pick out a few people who think they believe that they know what Trump was reaaaally doing. What matters is hard evidence which 100 senators will determine the meaning of. > > And there is no hard evidence. Just inferences. In criminal or civil trials; we don’t allow the defendant to coordinate with the jurors, we don’t tell the judge how the proceedings will occur, we don’t let the jurors vote on evidence or witnesses, we don’t allow the jurors to discuss the case with the media or other jurors. Why should we assume their rules of evidence? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876/60 "2020-01-25T06:12:55Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > As far as I know, there was no rowing scholarship involved, and I don’t think Yale gives ath[l]etic scholarships anyway. Yale and the rest of the Ivy League schools give no athletic scholarships. However, they do let at least certain coaches give athletic endorsements which do not give automatic admission. It was revealed in the recent nationwide admission scandal that the women’s soccer coach (who left Yale before the scandal broke) probably gave two fraudulent endorsements, and one of the two students was admitted before having the admission rescinded after the scandal broke. I do not know if they gave athletic scholarships in the past when any Bush attended. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-downside-to-having-hunter-biden-testify-at-the-impeachment-trial/846876.md?page=4)