# What would be the point to pardoning Martha Stewart? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266 "2018-06-01T15:18:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/1 "2018-06-01T15:18:13Z")
She served her time, it’s done, and nobody really gives a shit anymore. A pardon would have no effect that I can see. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/2 "2018-06-01T15:26:22Z")
It’s one of the few things Trump can do without his advisors looking at him sideways, so he’s going to goddamn do it. Also, you’re falling down the rabbit hole of trying to make sense of Trump’s activities. That leads nowhere good (for your mental health). ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/3 "2018-06-01T15:27:24Z")
She was convicted of obstructing justice in a federal investigation. It sends a message to others that if the president notices that you were convicted of obstruction of justice and he likes you, he will likely give you a pardon too. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/4 "2018-06-01T15:56:12Z")
Depending on the state she may have lost her right to vote (a lot of states prohibit felons from voting). If so, she would now regain the right. Financially she could benefit (a lot of companies wouldn’t want to advertise with someone who is a felon for public relations reasons). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/5 "2018-06-01T15:59:29Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Depending on the state she may have lost her right to vote (a lot of states prohibit felons from voting). If so, she would now regain the right. > > Financially she could benefit (a lot of companies wouldn’t want to advertise with someone who is a felon for public relations reasons). She is famous, she’s got money and she isn’t liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/6 "2018-06-01T16:01:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > She is famous, she’s got money and she isn’t liberal. Ding, ding, ding! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/7 "2018-06-01T16:02:55Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > She served her time, it’s done, and nobody really gives a shit anymore. A pardon would have no effect that I can see. She was convicted of a felony. That means in many states she is not allowed to vote. It means she cannot own firearms. In many school districts that means she can not act as a chaperone on a field trip or volunteer in a classroom. Her ability to travel outside the US is restricted. Depending on what state she lives in or where she works there may well be additional restrictions. A pardon can remove those restrictions. So while it might not matter to YOU, it might well matter to her. In reality, in the US when you’re convicted of a felony it’s never “done”, there are penalties that continue for life. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/8 "2018-06-01T16:22:19Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > A pardon would have no effect that I can see. Felony convictions are a bit like contracting herpes. They are the gift that keeps on giving. There are lifetime legal consequences of being a convicted felon that remain after the punishment is over. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/9 "2018-06-01T16:26:00Z")
I assume it removes any SEC restrictions too? Like boards and running public companies? > [@](#): > > …It sends a message to others that if the president notices that you were convicted of obstruction of justice and he likes you, he will likely give you a pardon too. I’m sure this figures into it. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/10 "2018-06-01T16:36:15Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I assume it removes any SEC restrictions too? Like boards and running public companies? I’m not certain and I don’t want to research or offer an opinion. The pardon is understood to apply only to criminal penalties, not civil penalties. I believe that director and officer bars can be imposed either as criminal penalties or civil penalties. The civil penalties themselves can either be a collateral consequence of a criminal conviction or they can be the result of separate civil actions. So, relevant factors might include the type of action in which her penalties were imposed and upon what basis. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/11 "2018-06-01T16:40:43Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Depending on the state she may have lost her right to vote (a lot of states prohibit felons from voting). If so, she would now regain the right. > . . . As I’ve pointed out in other threads. . .While felons do lose the right to vote in all but 2 states (ME, VT), all but 9 (AL. DE, MS, NV, TN, WY, FL, IA, KY) automatically restore enfranchisement at some point, and those 9 have procedures for petition to regain your rights. So a pardon is not necessary to vote. > **[Voting Rights for People with a Felony Conviction - Nonprofit Vote](https://www.nonprofitvote.org/voting-in-your-state/voting-as-an-ex-offender/)** > > (Last updated August 2021. This page is currently being refreshed. For more current rulings as they relate to voting rights restoration please visit the National Conference on State Legislatures Restoration of Voting Rights for Felons page) In all... mc ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/12 "2018-06-01T17:13:08Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > I’m not certain and I don’t want to research or offer an opinion. The pardon is understood to apply only to criminal penalties, not civil penalties. I believe that director and officer bars can be imposed either as criminal penalties or civil penalties. The civil penalties themselves can either be a collateral consequence of a criminal conviction or they can be the result of separate civil actions. So, relevant factors might include the type of action in which her penalties were imposed and upon what basis. As I understood it a convicted felon cannot be the executive or a board member(?) of a public company. (So, a problem she shared with “Lord” Black of Crossharbor) Martha was convicted of obstruction but not, if I recall, of insider trading. there was insufficient evidence of that. (Thus bearing out Nixon’s observation of the Chambers case that “in the end, you get them on the cover-up not the original crime.” he was very prescient.) ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/13 "2018-06-01T17:14:55Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > She was convicted of obstructing justice in a federal investigation. It sends a message to others that if the president notices that you were convicted of obstruction of justice and he likes you, he will likely give you a pardon too. I think it might be ever more self centered than this. I think he wants to get the public used to the idea that campaign finance laws, obstruction of justice, lying to officials, (crimes he may have committed) are not “real” crimes. By pardoning people convicted of them, I think it diminishes their seriousness in the public eye. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/14 "2018-06-01T17:22:46Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > She was convicted of obstructing justice in a federal investigation. It sends a message to others that if the president notices that you were convicted of obstruction of justice and he likes you, he will likely give you a pardon too. This is the correct answer. That said if I was a person with the goods on Trump I would never withhold that information from the police. No way in hell am I trusting Trump to pardon me after the fact. He is as mercurial as they come and might decide to not pardon me because [he didn’t like my mustache](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/379916-officials-say-trump-was-hesitant-about-hiring-bolton-because-of-his) (if I had one). Why people keep putting their faith in Trump is beyond me. Why someone would fall on their sword for him is truly bewildering. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/15 "2018-06-01T18:42:14Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Why people keep putting their faith in Trump is beyond me. Why someone would fall on their sword for him is truly bewildering. The question is what’s the alternative. The main guy said to be banking on a pardon from Trump is Manafort. The problem Manafort has is that he’s too high up to get a really good deal from the prosecutors. It’s not like they’re going to let him walk if he “cooperates”. He is likely going to have to serve serious time anyway. So he’s looking at either definite serious time if he pleads guilty to what he’s being accused of, versus a shot at beating the rap in court and then another shot at a pardon later if he doesn’t plead. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/16 "2018-06-01T18:50:11Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The question is what’s the alternative. > > The main guy said to be banking on a pardon from Trump is Manafort. The problem Manafort has is that he’s too high up to get a really good deal from the prosecutors. It’s not like they’re going to let him walk if he “cooperates”. He is likely going to have to serve serious time anyway. So he’s looking at either definite serious time if he pleads guilty to what he’s being accused of, versus a shot at beating the rap in court and then another shot at a pardon later if he doesn’t plead. Why doesn’t Trump just pardon Manafort now and be done with it? Hell, issue pardons across the board and be done with it. For any other president the answer would be the political cost would be too high but that has never bothered Trump and indeed he seems to revel in doing the things he “shouldn’t” do. I cannot see how he could be charged with obstruction of justice either. This is a power granted to him by the constitution. I can’t see how exercising that power could be punished by anything other than impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/17 "2018-06-01T18:57:24Z")
A lifetime supply of Christmas cookies? ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/18 "2018-06-01T19:03:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > She is famous, she’s got money and she isn’t liberal. God. I’m confused. I’d heard she’d given up on appeals back then and went to jail because she was a John Kerry supporter, and when he didn’t win, and she lost all hope of pardon, she might as well serve time. Seriously, I always used her (in my mind) as a prime example of the hardcore lib attitude – “It’s not fascism when _ **our** _ side does it.” Now she’s a conservative? Dangit. What’s with people, changing their point of view over time? Makes my pigeonhole worldview so difficult to maintain. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/19 "2018-06-01T19:21:53Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Why doesn’t Trump just pardon Manafort now and be done with it? Hell, issue pardons across the board and be done with it. > > For any other president the answer would be the political cost would be too high but that has never bothered Trump and indeed he seems to revel in doing the things he “shouldn’t” do. Only if the urge strikes him. I doubt if pardoning Manafort is an emotional issue for him, and I don’t see what’s in it for him to do it now vs later. > [@](#): > > I cannot see how he could be charged with obstruction of justice either. This is a power granted to him by the constitution. I can’t see how exercising that power could be punished by anything other than impeachment. How is that different than things like firing Comey etc.? - these are also constitutional powers. What you’re saying is essentially the argument of Dershowitz et al who argue that none of this can be obstruction for this exact reason. But others argue that even executing a constitutionally granted power can be obstruction if done for the purpose of obstructing justice. > [@Arkcon](#): > > God. I’m confused. I’d heard she’d given up on appeals back then and went to jail because she was a John Kerry supporter, and when he didn’t win, and she lost all hope of pardon, she might as well serve time. [Martha Stewart: I’m not a Republican](https://www.politico.com/blogs/click/2011/10/martha-stewart-im-not-a-republican-040236) That said, your story’s timeline doesn’t fit. She went to prison on October 8 2004, before the election. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-point-to-pardoning-martha-stewart/815266/20 "2018-06-01T19:25:49Z")
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