# What would be the reaction if Pope Francis won the Nobel peace prize? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 28, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976 "2013-11-28T01:49:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/21 "2013-11-30T03:28:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Don’t they all take that vow already? No. As **tomndebb** says, members of religious orders do, but not your ordinary parish priest. Should be noted, though, that Francis is a Jesuit, and Jesuits do take a vow of poverty. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/22 "2013-11-30T08:10:49Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > every other time I’ve seen him in the news it’s been because he’s been doing something nice - whether it’s letting a girl into that apostle ritual for the first time… That was a first for the Pope, but it’s been done at other levels for decades. Relatively few decades if you discount locations where any men other than the priest would have had to be brought in specially for the occasion; centuries if you count them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/23 "2013-11-30T16:12:17Z")
Seems to me that for decades the church has been saying, “SEX IS BAD! and so is greed.” Now Francis is saying, “GREED IS BAD! and so is sex.” Technically it is the same message, but I very much welcome the shift in emphasis. Yes, I realize my paraphrase is not technically accurate. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/24 "2013-11-30T16:14:55Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > Probably more, if the wretched poor don’t get their grubby hands on it first. > > He’s taken a vow of poverty, so I really doubt he’s going to buy himself a fluorescent green Lamborghini supercar with big papa decals, a souped up engine and tricked-out rims. 😕 You mean that doesn’t come _with_ the check? Huh. Now I kinda don’t want one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/25 "2013-11-30T17:19:38Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > No. As **tomndebb** says, members of religious orders do, but not your ordinary parish priest. > > Should be noted, though, that Francis is a Jesuit, and Jesuits do take a vow of poverty. Perhaps they do, but: ‘I have somewhere heard or read the frank confession of a Benedictine abbot: “My vow of poverty has given me a hundred thousands crowns a year; my vow of obedience has raised me to the rank of a sovereign prince.” I forget the consequence of his vow of chastity.’ (Gibbon, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, chapter XXXVIII, note 57). ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/26 "2013-11-30T18:52:17Z")
Jesuits are not the same as Benedictines. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/27 "2013-11-30T21:18:00Z")
Certainly, Jesuits are the ones who are so bad at obedience they’re required to promise it twice. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/28 "2013-12-01T00:15:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Seems to me that for decades the church has been saying, “SEX IS BAD! and so is greed.” Now Francis is saying, “GREED IS BAD! and so is sex.” Technically it is the same message, but I very much welcome the shift in emphasis. > > Yes, I realize my paraphrase is not technically accurate. It is my understanding that he’s on record as stating that the Church (as well as Christians in general, IMO) shouldn’t be focusing so much on the going ons in the bedroom, be it gays or abortions or contraception, because paying any attention to that detracts and takes the focus away from Christ’s essential message of universal peace and brotherly love, which according to him is pretty far out, dude. My point is, if he’s saying “sex is bad”, he’s doing it quite _sotto vocce_. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/29 "2013-12-01T01:05:30Z")
Abortions happen in the bedroom? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/30 "2013-12-01T09:10:56Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Jesuits are not the same as Benedictines. No, indeed not, Jesuit has a higher alcohol content than Benedictine. (And I say that as a Georgetown alumnus.) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2013, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/31 "2013-12-01T09:29:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Abortions happen in the bedroom? Sometimes you’re in a rush, OK ? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/32 "2013-12-02T13:46:32Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > Mother Teresa got a Peace prize for her work with the poor of Calcutta. (Good as she was, I personally don’t think that was enough) and she was a Catholic figure, so there is a precedent for it. I think it has been pretty much established that mother Teresa was anything but a force for good. Teresa, Kissenger and the leader of the Catholic church sums up the validity of the Nobel Peace prize quite nicely. I’d take the Groucho Marx defence on this one, if they lumped me with that lot as equally worthy I’d have serious concerns about my life choices. > [@](#): > > Being a nice guy shouldn’t be enough, maybe if he makes a vow of poverty mandatory for all bishops and cardinals, then he’ll be in for shot. Strip the church of it’s finery and give it to the poor…you know, like that guy said…you know the one…jewish lad…good with his hands…told a good story…Jethro? Jessie? something like that. > [@](#): > > I’ve got a hunch that he actually might get it for reducing AIDS. No, I’m not joking, the church is actually already one of the biggest providers of support, medicine, medical personnel and scientific training in the fight against AIDS. The problem is, they’ve got this terribly naive view that people will stop having sex with unfamiliar partners if they are educated enough. Well quite, but then what circular reasoning. They are a huge contributory factor in the spread of aids, the work they do is cleaning up their own mess and no more. Let me know when they base their charitable work on medical fact rather than ideology and then we can discuss a trip to Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/33 "2013-12-02T15:24:12Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think it has been pretty much established that mother Teresa was anything but a force for good. Hardly. It’s been established that she had some flaws and some bad ideas, like everyone else. Most of the criticism of the facilities she ran fails to account for the fact that the alternatives were generally far worse. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/34 "2013-12-02T18:01:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Hardly. It’s been established that she had some flaws and some bad ideas, like everyone else. Most of the criticism of the facilities she ran fails to account for the fact that the alternatives were generally far worse. I think that the central purpose of healthcare is to alleviate suffering, She purposefully didn’t do that and even though the other options open to her “patients” were limited that doesn’t mean she gets a free pass for being "not as bad"in comparison. I don’t see her as a benevolent figure at all. The poor and the sick were pawns in her own little theological and ideological game. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/35 "2013-12-02T18:07:49Z")
What would be the reaction? Depends on whom you ask. As a conservative American Catholic, my reaction would be the same as it was when Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize:" Um… for WHAT? The guy hasn’t really DONE anything yet, has he?" If Francis received the award THIS year, I would interpret that as a gratuitous slap at his predecsessor(s). Now, what if he received the award somewhere down the road for a sepcific, tangible action? Then most people, regardless of religion or ideology would probably be FINE with that. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/36 "2013-12-02T18:53:08Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think it has been pretty much established that mother Teresa was anything but a force for good. Really? Established when, and by who? > [@](#): > > They are a huge contributory factor in the spread of aids, Really? So if we did a side-by-side comparison of Catholics and non-Catholics, would we find that Catholics were more likely to spread AIDS? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/37 "2013-12-02T18:59:34Z")
It’s premature, but if the message he’s been preaching catches on, there will be a case. [For instance:](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/pope-denounces-trickle-down-economics-which-has-never-been-confirmed-by-the-facts) > [@](#): > > Exclusion ultimately has to do with what it means to be a part of the society in which we live; those excluded are no longer society’s underside or its fringes or its disenfranchised – they are no longer even a part of it. The excluded are not the ‘exploited’ but the outcast, the ‘leftovers’. > … > In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world," he said. "This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. I had no expectations of the man when he got chosen, but I’m rapidly starting to think the Cardinals got it right. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/38 "2013-12-02T19:10:11Z")
When was the last time the Nobel Peace Prize was taken seriously? Since 2000, there may be 5 times the award has gone to (a) receipient(s) that truly earned the award for contributing to Peace/Human Rights. If Pope Francis won it would be “OK” then move on with life. I suspect that people think he would deserve it more than Al Gore or Barack Obama but I just think people don’t care about who wins the NPP and instead want to discuss who didn’t win. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/39 "2013-12-02T19:51:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Hardly. It’s been established that she had some flaws and some bad ideas, like everyone else. Most of the criticism of the facilities she ran fails to account for the fact that the alternatives were generally far worse. She _wanted_ poor people to suffer, because she thought it glorified her god. Running a hospital as some kind of pain farm is just fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976/40 "2013-12-03T09:23:24Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Really? Established when, and by who? Christopher Hitchens made the most celebrated expose, never rebutted, never refuted. As far as I can tell it is a fairly watertight case. Had he of all people resorted to outright lies then we’d sharp know about it. Or consider a more recent publication by the [university of Montreal](http://www.nouvelles.umontreal.ca/udem-news/news/20130301-mother-teresa-anything-but-a-saint.html) is very through and comes to much the same conclusions. > [@](#): > > Really? So if we did a side-by-side comparison of Catholics and non-Catholics, would we find that Catholics were more likely to spread AIDS? Was that my claim? No. Their ideology means they refuse to promote one of the most certain means of preventing aids. If they think they hold enough power to turn the faithful to abstinence (which flies in the face of human nature) then surely their endorsement of condom use would be even more successful (seeing as it still allows sexual activity). They shun a simple act that could save millions what is that if not reckless and dangerous? A question for you, if you divided up a country of high HIV incidence into two areas and promoted abstinence and other forms of safe sex and the other did the same but heavily promoted condom use as well…which would be more successful? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-be-the-reaction-if-pope-francis-won-the-nobel-peace-prize/674976.md?page=3)