Applies to bicyclists, too; probably even more often than motorcyclists because of loop sensors not being set properly; the moto is hundreds of more pounds than a racing bike so more likely to trip it.
Most if not all states have a similar statute; a defective/out traffic light is treated like a stop sign & you may only proceed after stopping & determining it’s safe to do so; pretty sure it comes out of MUCTD so all of the states should have virtually identical language for it.
Emergency vehicles, with lights & sirens on may proceed thru a red light after stopping/slowing to determine it’s safe to do so.
I say mostly because if it wasn’t mostly safe, meaning if 51% or more of the time there was an accident, then I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t do it any more. And I think the threshold would be far lower, e.g., if 40% or 30% of the time an emergency vehicle with sirens on crossed a red light, slowly and safely, and if there was an accident, I think things would change.
I ride motorcycles. When I have the green light I try to always check cross traffic. It’s a habit that I do when driving my car. When cross streets have Stop signs and I don’t, I try to check cross traffic for some drunken idiot blowing through it.
Yeah. The safety of emergency vehicles ("EV"s) crossing red lights is deemed adequate by society. It’s not 100%; Nothing in safety is 100%. But it’s safe enough that we’re collectively content w the status quo.
I also get the impression that over the years EVs have become more cautious about going through intersections than they were 30 or 50 years ago when we were kids. Whether that’s because of more traffic, or stupider drivers, or an evolving attitude towards “how safe is safe enough” I can’t say.
But the collective system seems to be responsive to the total environment, even if the basic law for drivers: “pull over and stop for EVs in intersections” hasn’t changed at all.
At least around the last 2 major cities I’ve lived in, they’ve eliminated the in-ground sensors. Too much maintenance cost.
Instead they’ve gone to a low res camera mounted up near the traffic signal. It stares at a box in each lane where the first vehicle in line would sit. If it just sees road, the signal doesn’t change. When it sees anything, the signal changes. IME they’re fully responsive to a single bicyclist.
The cameras are deliberately low-res. Can’t read plates, can’t identify drivers, nothing is recorded. Its just an optical sensor that can distinguish between “lane empty” and “lane not empty”.
Cheaper, faster, and better. Modern tech at its best.
They don’t, though. I’ve seen plenty of emergency vehicles go through red lights, but they always stop or slow down sufficiently that they could stop if they see a vehicle approaching.
The “barrelling through a red light at full speed because there’s an emergency going on” trope only exists in Hollywood (e.g. @Bullitt’s namesake )
I would not say that behavior that causes an accident only 49% of the time is “mostly safe”.
I’ve seen a study somewhere that the increased number of accidents due to emergency vehicles running reds might actually outweigh the benefits of them getting to their destinations that little bit quicker. Society collectively is content with the status quo, but maybe we shouldn’t be.
There’s also a system that some cities have, where emergency vehicles can communicate in some way with the traffic light system, and trigger the lights on their route in advance so they always get greens. This is probably safer, but of course it’s also more expensive, and not very widespread.
Those are nice, but I don’t think they’re very common around here yet (Cleveland). There are certainly still some intersections that I know use the magnetic sensors, and which can’t detect bicycles.
I have driven in the UK, Italy, France, and Germany (my wife won’t let me drive in Egypt). Those people, as a culture, take their driving much more seriously than Americans. Where else do you see drivers with an arm hanging out the window dangling a cigarette, or left hand on the wheel while leaning over into the passenger seat, or just general inattention. In general the lane usage is more disciplined abroad also–you don’t see slow cars camping out in the fast lane, but also overtaking (passing) in the slow lane can be illegal.
We have that here. It’s done with special strobes, though AFAIK only fire trucks have them. Also, the strobe signal doesn’t turn a red light green, I believe (at least the way it works here) it turns the traffic lights red in all directions.
A transmitter in the EV & a receiver on the light pole trips the light to be green in the EVs direction of travel & red in all other directions, with a white light that blinks on the receiver so that the EV driver has a visual that its been activated.
The mag loop sensors in some intersections can detect bicycles if a wheel of the bike is placed directly over the loop. You can usually tell where the loop is because they dug a circular trench in the pavement to insert the loop and then filled it with tar. The tar is darker than asphalt, so it’s quite visible.
But it doesn’t work for every loop or every bike. There was one intersection near where I lived where this worked for my bike. And then my rims wore out and I had to get new wheels. With the new wheels, the loop could not detect my bike any more.
Somewhat off topic, but… man, Indonesia and India should also be on your wife’s list. Completely insane.
(Naturally, I have driven in both. I have never been so scared on the road, and we in South Africa even have a band called “Taxi Violence” in a nod to our own insane traffic offenders)
We definitely shouldn’t be ! I have spent literally decades trying to persuade EMT students, and any other responders I can reach, that running lights and sirens is stupid in all but a tiny majority of cases.
No study has EVER demonstrated a patient benefit from the tiny amount of time saved by going through red lights, exceeding the speed limit, and other maneuvers lights and sirens make legal. On the other hand, multiple studies have shown an increased risk to patients and medical crews, and a far higher risk to others on the road due to a “wake effect.”
Studies have shown the average time savings from “running hot” to be anywhere from 42 seconds to a little over 3 minutes, depending on the area served - rarely enough time to justify the increased risk. (I apologize for not having cites just now. I’ll try to rectify that later.)
So my answer to “what is the safest speed to run a red light,” is either: A) none, or B) about 5 miles an hour, inching out to be certain all cross traffic has really, truly stopped.
Both those things are illegal in the standard US driving laws. Different states say the same basic ideas using different words with different emphases though.
And both those ideas are routinely ignored by the majority of drivers in many many regions.
Retired New York State Emergency Medical Technician and ambulance driver chiming in here.
There is no safe slow speed to blow a red light.
Period.
You risk life and limb all around.
NO matter how “hot” a call may be, you are obliged to stop first before driving through a red light.
The last ambulance I drove weighed in at slightly under 12,000 pounds. Even to slow down to, say, 20 mph and then blow a red light risks t-boning a vehicle moving through its green light at, say, 45-55 mph.
We’ve never been to your two favorites, but she’s from Egypt and I’ve been there eight times. I keep saying I should just rent a car, but it’s really a completely different driving culture. Probably similar to those two. Lane lines are ignored, signs and signals are ignored, pedestrians randomly crossing highways, scooters and motorcycles darting in and out of everywhere. Everybody is constantly on their horns as a way to let you know they are someplace you are not expecting them to be.
I’m curious if you have an opinion on this observation. Agreed that most emergency vehicles slow down a lot more than they used to. But what I’ve found is that it’s a lot harder these days to hear one to begin with and depending on traffic I might not even know it’s there until it goes in front of me in the intersection. Like was there a change to sirens while vehicles have gotten better soundproofing and other noise reduction over the last couple decades?
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