# What would getting shot by a .308 be like? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 3, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286 "2014-04-03T20:27:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Izzi\_Rio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Izzi\_Rio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzi_Rio)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/1 "2014-04-03T20:27:15Z")
I know it’s dark, but after reading about people who get hit by .22’s in the head and somehow survive (albeit with some crazy scars) I’m now wondering what a head shot with said .308 would be like… does anyone with gun knowledge know what would happen? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/2 "2014-04-03T20:33:57Z")
Have you ever seen a can of tomatoes shot with a high-powered rifle? Like that. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/3 "2014-04-03T20:34:22Z")
A .308 is a vastly more powerful round than a .22 center-fire. It was developed as a military round and is very popular as a hunting cartridge for big sized game. There are designed to kill people and animals very effectively in other words. Your chances of living through a direct head shot from a .308 are fairly low and much lower than getting shot the same way with a .22. If you did manage to survive it, severe disfigurement and disability are almost certainly assured unless it was just a glancing shot. ---
**Author:** ![Izzi\_Rio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Izzi\_Rio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzi_Rio)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/4 "2014-04-03T20:38:09Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > A .308 is a vastly more powerful round than a .22 center-fire. It was developed as a military round and is very popular as a hunting cartridge for big sized game. There are designed to kill people and animals very effectively in other words. > > Your chances of living through a direct head shot from a .308 are fairly low and much lower than getting shot the same way with a .22. If you did manage to survive it, severe disfigurement and disability are almost certainly assured unless it was just a glancing shot. Christ… I was shot by a .44 in the leg a few years back, and it wasn’t all that bad (until I got to the Hospital, then it sucked) so I guess I just figured it would be like those clean shots you see in the movies 😕 ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/5 "2014-04-03T21:24:50Z")
If that .44 came from a pistol, a .44 from a rifle would have roughly double the energy of that, and a .308 would have roughly double the energy of the .44 rifle, if that helps you to put it in perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/6 "2014-04-03T21:24:57Z")
Handguns are qualitatively different than rifles, until you get into those handguns that are essentially cut-down rifles. (E.g., .460 S&W Magnum) Handguns typically make a permanent wound cavity that is a straight line, the width of the expanded bullet. See, e.g,.[this ballistic gelatin drawing](http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/357%20Magnum.jpg) of the permanent and temporary wound cavity from a 125 gr, .357 Magnum bullet. A comparison diagram between typical handgun bullets may be found at page 6 of Dr. Gary Roberts’s [article on handgun wound terminal ballistics.](http://www.handguncombatives.com/resources/LE_WB_briefing_6_13.pdf) Rifle bullets can produce the same type of permanent wound cavity if the bullet does not fragment. The cavity can be wider than the diameter of the bullet, due to the bullet tumbling through tissue. Dr. Martin Fackler’s [article on wounding profiles of military rifle bullets](http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Fackler_Articles/wounding_patterns_military_rifles.pdf) shows good examples of this for the 123 grain, 7.62 mm X 39 AK-47 bullet. Things change when the bullet fragments, as the diagram for the M193 55 grain, and SS109/M855 62 grain, 5.56 mm X 45 bullets show. There, fragmentation assists the bullet in cutting away a larger area of tissue, resulting in a much greater volume of permanent wound cavity. Basically, it makes a bigger hole. A .308 bullet that fragmented would do the same thing, but on a larger scale due to its higher weight and kinetic energy. From Dr. Vincent DiMaio’s, _[Gunshot Wounds: Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques](http://www.amazon.com/Gunshot-Wounds-Ballistics-Techniques-Investigations/dp/0849381630)_, at page 188: > [@](#): > > The severe nature of wounds from centerfire rifles is due to the large temporary cavities produced, exceeding the limits of elasticity of the tissue and organs. Body organs can absorb only a certain amount of kinetic energy and therefore a certain size of temporary cavity before the limits of their elasticity are exceeded and the organs shatter (pulpify). The severely destructive properties of rifle bullets are not possessed by handgun or .22 rimfire rifle bullets. The low velocity of the latter bullets, with resultant low kinetic energy imparted to the tissue, results in small temporary cavities that do not exceed the elastic limits of organs. The brain’s elastic tensile strength and resistance to shear are low compared to other body organs. Therefore, I would expect even a non-fragmenting rifle bullet to do horrific damage to the brain. As Dr. DiMaio further writes, even intermediate to distant rifle wounds to the head may be devastating: > [@](#): > > Intermediate and distant range wounds of the head can be just as devastating as contact wounds [figure reference omitted]. This is especially true for hunting ammunition. As the hunting bullet rapidly expands, shedding fragments of core and sometimes jacket, large quantities of kinetic energy are lost in the cranial cavity. This produces a large temporary cavity with resultant high pressure, all within the rigid framework of the skull. The pressure produces extensive fragmentation of bone and brain tissue. Location of entrance and exit wounds may require extensive reconstruction of the skull, with careful realignment of the edges of the scalp and bone. The accompanying figures and pictures are quite gruesome. Getting hit in the head with a .308 rifle bullet is frequently a terminal experience. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/7 "2014-04-03T22:32:42Z")
> [@Izzi\_Rio](#): > > Christ… I was shot by a .44 in the leg a few years back, and it wasn’t all that bad (until I got to the Hospital, then it sucked) so I guess I just figured it would be like those clean shots you see in the movies 😕 “Those clean shots you see in movies” are a product of what we technically call “movie magic”, e.g. the fact that nothing on the screen actually has to represent reality. Unless the bullet passes through and through epidermis or free muscle the amount of damage a bullet can do is exceptional. I’ve never seen a person shot in the head but I have seen a pig shot with a rifle (.45 ACP repeated failed to penetrate the forehead); the owner used something in the .30 caliber family…a .30-40 Krag if I recall correctly. Although the head did not explode, the bullet passed through and through the skull, plowed through the shoulder (yeah, the owner wasn’t too sharp) and buried itself several inches into the ground. The brain was just a mush due to the imparted shock. And that is a much lower powered bullet than a .308 Winchester. If you got shot in the head such that the bullet actually impacted the skull, you would be dead or severely maimed and incapacitated. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/8 "2014-04-04T00:38:11Z")
A .22 is a lightweight caliber round that is idiosyncratic in its wounding capabilities. Pressed against your skull (aka “Mafia-style”) it will probably kill you while deflecting around inside of your skull. Fired from just a few feet away at a slightly oblique angle, it could deflect off of your skull and even travel underneath your scalp until it comes to rest. You might not even know that you were shot. A .308 on the other hand is far heavier round fired with far greater energy. Its path into your skull is going to be direct and it’s almost going to exit your head, leaving a much larger wound where it does, unless it was fired from a great distance away or your are unfortunate enough to have been struck by a ricochet. I have seen an antelope struck in the neck by a .308 at about 300 yards and the animal was almost decapitated. Granted this was using a soft nosed bullet which would be illegal on the battlefield, but I would have to imagine that if same occurred to a human head, that it would create either an instantaneously fatal wound or a mortal one from which it would be impossible to survive even with immediate medical attention. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/9 "2014-04-04T01:11:58Z")
Let’s put it this way. A .22 long rifle cartridge has 115-125 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle of the weapon. A .308 has 2700-2800 (or more). Or about 22-25 TIMES the kinetic energy of that .22 round. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/10 "2014-04-04T01:18:21Z")
I had a .308 rifle [blow up in my face](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=291337). It didn’t feel good. I suppose being shot with one would be… a bit more traumatic. ---
**Author:** ![bubba\_jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@bubba\_jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubba_jr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/11 "2014-04-04T01:25:41Z")
It would really really hurt… or you would be dead. Or it would really really hurt, and then you would die. Unless somebody threw the bullet at you, in which case it probably wouldn’t hurt much unless it hit you in they eye or in the balls. So you’ve already been shot and now want to know what its like to get shot by different calibers in different parts of your body. You needed better parents. You need better friends. You need a hobby… That doesn’t involve shooting yourself. Dark??? Twisted is more like it. I really hope you are just having fun, and aren’t seriously wondering what it feels like to get shot in the head… It hurts, a lot, or you die, or both… Sucks either way. Now may I ask how you got shot in the leg? Was it because you wanted to see what it felt like? I hope not. I hope its a funny story… even though you did get shot, which should never be funny, but can be. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/12 "2014-04-04T06:42:12Z")
My understanding is the .308 Win cartridge is ballistically identical to a 30-06. A different powder takes less volume to produce the same pressure, so you can get away with using a smaller case. So you get away with lighter and smaller rounds with the same performance. This is why the US Army’s request for bids for a replacement for the Garand M-1 specified .308 Win. They also wanted a 20 round removable box magazine and semi and full auto capability. The M-14 was what they ended up buying. ---
**Author:** ![Izzi\_Rio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Izzi\_Rio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzi_Rio)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/13 "2014-04-04T12:52:08Z")
> [@bubba\_jr](#): > > It would really really hurt… or you would be dead. Or it would really really hurt, and then you would die. > > Unless somebody threw the bullet at you, in which case it probably wouldn’t hurt much unless it hit you in they eye or in the balls. > So you’ve already been shot and now want to know what its like to get shot by different calibers in different parts of your body. > > You needed better parents. > You need better friends. > You need a hobby… That doesn’t involve shooting yourself. > > Dark??? Twisted is more like it. > > I really hope you are just having fun, and aren’t seriously wondering what it > feels like to get shot in the head… It hurts, a lot, or you die, or both… Sucks either way. > > Now may I ask how you got shot in the leg? Was it because you wanted to see what it felt like? I hope not. I hope its a funny story… even though you did get shot, which should never be funny, but can be. It’s actually more depressing than funny, lol. I was wrapped up with some unsavory characters, long story short, may have given the police some info, got dragged to something involving a gun, may or may not have been a struggle, and the guys gun goes off, capping me in the leg. In hindsight the way I fell was kinda funny though. Kinda like a tree. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/14 "2014-04-04T14:15:46Z")
A 150 grain Nosler tip Winchester .308 (a small one) expends 3,590 J of energy. A 200 grain JHP .44 Magnum (again, the smallest possible) expends 1,030 J. The most powerful .22 LR (Copper Plated RN) exerts a expends 277 J. So to summarize, the smallest .308 has THIRTEEN times more kablooey than a tiny little .22, and over three times as powerful as the .44. But you don’t have to take my word for it. Just Google “.308 wound” images and see what you get. Not for the faint of heart. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/15 "2014-04-04T15:11:17Z")
[My new favorite infographic on the topic of the terminal ballistics of movie wounds.](http://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/1000words/2012/06/infographic-the-bloody-truth-cinematic-bullet-woun.html) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/16 "2014-04-04T15:13:37Z")
That’s a term of art, right? By coincidence, I was web hopping and came on a page about a new Beretta, and something known in the biz as the “[something] kablooey.” Is that a word that only Beretta-heads use? ETA: to **Chihuahua** , re comparative energetics. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/17 "2014-04-04T16:46:06Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > A .22 is a lightweight caliber round that is idiosyncratic in its wounding capabilities. Pressed against your skull (aka “Mafia-style”) it will probably kill you while deflecting around inside of your skull. Fired from just a few feet away at a slightly oblique angle, it could deflect off of your skull and even travel underneath your scalp until it comes to rest. You might not even know that you were shot. Having grown up on a farm, where culling sick hogs was accomplished with a .22 rifle, I don’t agree with this statement. Perhaps, if you are referring to .22 short cartridges - which you can actually see flying downrange to a target 🙂 - I would agree, but if you are referring to .22 long rifles cartridges, I have put enough of those through enough pig skulls to state the risk of deflection is extremely low, if not non-existent. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/18 "2014-04-04T17:03:49Z")
> [@FordPrefect](#): > > Having grown up on a farm, where culling sick hogs was accomplished with a .22 rifle, I don’t agree with this statement. Perhaps, if you are referring to .22 short cartridges - which you can actually see flying downrange to a target 🙂 - I would agree, but if you are referring to .22 long rifles cartridges, I have put enough of those through enough pig skulls to state the risk of deflection is extremely low, if not non-existent. Nope, I’m referring to .22LR rounds. While they are effective, they can also perform strangely in certain situations. People have been struck in the head with .22LR rounds and have died instantly. Other have walked around with the bullet in their scalp and only knew that had been shot after they went to the hospital. .22 short rounds aren’t that commonly used anymore except (IME) by target shooters Obviously, a .22LR round fired from a rifle is going to perform differently than the same round from a pistol. Since the only .308 pistol commonly sold would likely be the Thompson Contender and it would illegally to test out how a head wound from that would differ from that of a rifle round, I’ll just stick with my answer. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/19 "2014-04-04T17:11:56Z")
NOTE: My grandfather also owned hogs and I saw him kill them with a .22. It was a rifle however, not a pistol. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286/20 "2014-04-04T17:21:14Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > If that .44 came from a pistol, a .44 from a rifle would have roughly double the energy of that, and a .308 would have roughly double the energy of the .44 rifle, if that helps you to put it in perspective. I know little about guns but .44 is bigger than .308, so can an expert please explain why is the latter twice as ‘energetic’ as the former? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-getting-shot-by-a-308-be-like/685286.md?page=2)