# what would H2O2 be?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 12, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768 "2013-03-12T23:37:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/21 "2013-03-13T12:40:07Z")
> [@Nava](#):
>
> … 20 years of teaching smartasses and 50 of being one…
😃
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/22 "2013-03-13T12:56:36Z")
Ascribing fabulous benefits to “oxygenated” products and “oxygen therapy” is a current staple of woo, and [hydrogen peroxide is touted as a ticket to good health](http://www.snopes.com/medical/homecure/peroxide.asp).
One of the biggies is drinking or bathing in concentrated (35%) hydrogen peroxide, so-called “food grade” H202. What enthusiasts don’t seem to realize is that “food grade” means that the product is approved for cleaning/sterilizing machinery used in food processing, NOT that it’s suitable for consumption. People have been seriously injured or killed by this stuff.
One of my favorite claims for “oxygen therapy” is that it’s great for preventing/treating cancer, with the breathless assertion that “cancer cells can’t survive in an oxygenated environment”.
Apparently lung cancers don’t realize this. ☹
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### Author:  [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/23 "2013-03-13T14:07:42Z")
Not to mention the fact that one of the major jobs a tumor needs to do is angiogenesis - they need to grow new blood vessels to supply the tumor with OXYGEN.
Also ignoring the fact that one of the big causes of damage in cells is oxidative damage, caused by so-called "ROS"s. ROS standing for “reactive oxygen species” - in other words, highly reactive molecules that all contain oxygen. ROSs arise as a byproduct of metabolism and do all kinds of nasty stuff in the cell. Leaving aside the details, more oxygen is definitely not a universally good thing.
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### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/24 "2013-03-13T14:38:21Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> The fish of the world beg to differ.
Dissolved air in water is only about 4% by volume at STP. You aregoing to have to injest a hell of a lot of water to equal the amount of air you inhale in a single breath. Unless you have gills, you are not going to intake a significant amount of oxygen by drinking water.
> [@Nava](#):
>
> They’re the chains that water molecules form naturally when in liquid form, united by hydrogen bonds. For some purposes (most notably evaporation and solidification), water doesn’t behave as being composed by individual packages of H2O, but by little chains (H2O)n; since this is actually irrelevant for reaction purposes, any reactions will be writen using H2O. I remember my teachers saying that calculations based on “guesses of what the boiling temperature would be if there were no hydrogen bonds” show n to be about 8, but of course that doesn’t mean a glass of water contains a zillion exactly-8-molecules-long chains or that n is the same under any conditions of pressure and temperature. One of my classmates got smartass and asked “so if it’s _about_ 8, how do you get the decimals?” and the teacher answered “the decimals are the charged clusters” (he later told us that no, he hadn’t gotten the question before but if you can’t think on your feet after 20 years of teaching smartasses and 50 of being one you should change jobs).
Interesting. I never considered treating water as a macromolecule as opposed to just treating it as a generally amorphous polar solution.
Stranger
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### Author:  [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/25 "2013-03-13T15:32:28Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#):
>
> Interesting. I never considered treating water as a macromolecule as opposed to just treating it as a generally amorphous polar solution.
And that’s how water can have memory.
just kidding! 😃
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### Author:  [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/26 "2013-03-13T15:34:50Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> One of my favorite claims for “oxygen therapy” is that it’s great for preventing/treating cancer, with the breathless assertion that “cancer cells can’t survive in an oxygenated environment”…
I saw what you did there.
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### Author:  [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/27 "2013-03-13T15:40:48Z")
Didn’t some Amway subsidiary try to peddle some sort of super water a few years ago? This sounds like a similar scam.
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### Author:  [@mbetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbetter)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/28 "2013-03-13T17:12:05Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train]
Oxygen does not dissolve in water to any measurable degree…
[/QUOTE]
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#):
>
> Dissolved air in water is only about 4% by volume at STP.
>
> Stranger
So if this isn’t a measurement, what is it?
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### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/29 "2013-03-13T19:01:58Z")
> [@mbetter](#):
>
> So if this isn’t a measurement, what is it?
Permit me to rephrase: oxygen does not dissolve in water to any useful degree for intestional absorption. Unless you are a fish, you are not going to derive any substantial metabolic benefit from “oxygen-enhanced mineral water” beyond nominal hydration and mineral absorption.
Stranger
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/30 "2013-03-13T22:21:13Z")
I don’t think anyone in this thread has been arguing for the health benefits of oxygenated water. We’re not debating whether the oxygen works, just whether it’s there at all. Which it may well be.
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/31 "2013-03-14T00:54:21Z")
I think we are not getting at the heart of the OP’s ignorance in this matter.
Just because a chemical is present in something doesn’t mean it is chemically bonded. A gas can be dissolved in a liquid without changing the chemical formula for the gas or the liquid. There’s no reason to assume that this water has become H[sub]2[/sub]O[sub]2[/sub] (i.e. hydrogen peroxide) any more than mixing diamond dust and water somehow would make table sugar.
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### Author:  [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/32 "2013-03-14T04:00:01Z")
New question:
Can one pressurize extra dissolved oxygen (O[sub]2[/sub]) into water such that it bubbles out like carbonated water pressurized with CO[sub]2[/sub]?
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### Author:  [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/33 "2013-03-14T04:27:47Z")
> [@moriah](#):
>
> New question:
>
> Can one pressurize extra dissolved oxygen (O[sub]2[/sub]) into water such that it bubbles out like carbonated water pressurized with CO[sub]2[/sub]?
Is this not an answer (“an,” of course)?
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#):
>
> So it appears that the surplus of dissolved oxygen will end up in the airspace at the top. I guess that it’s heavier than air so it’ll mostly remain inside the bottle and would be beneficial if you suck it all out before drinking. My experience is that the air bubble mostly moves to the opposite end of the bottle where you can’t take advantage of the oxygen enhancement…
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### Author:  [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/34 "2013-03-14T22:47:58Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> I think we are not getting at the heart of the OP’s ignorance in this matter.
>
> Just because a chemical is present in something doesn’t mean it is chemically bonded. A gas can be dissolved in a liquid without changing the chemical formula for the gas or the liquid. There’s no reason to assume that this water has become H[sub]2[/sub]O[sub]2[/sub] (i.e. hydrogen peroxide) any more than mixing diamond dust and water somehow would make table sugar.
I think you assume I can comprehend a deeper explanation. I’m satisfied with what has been cited so far. The fact that water can be carbonated while still remaining water should have clued me in. I had some idea that infusing oxygen molecules into a compound that already contained them would make it easier for a new bond to form. I was mistaken and that’s all that I need to know.
I still think it’s a woo-woo product though.
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### Author:  [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/35 "2013-03-15T00:14:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> I don’t think anyone in this thread has been arguing for the health benefits of oxygenated water. We’re not debating whether the oxygen works, just whether it’s there at all. Which it may well be.
Well, a certain amount of oxygen will dissolve in water at a certain temperature and pressure. But that would be in ALL water at that temperature and pressure, and I’m not sure you can add any more above and beyond that. You can pressurize the container so that more oxygen dissolves in there, but as soon as you open it it will come out of solution and blow away in the wind. So for the purposes of ingesting it, I don’t think there IS any extra oxygen in these drinks.
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### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/36 "2013-03-15T00:26:30Z")
> [@DrCube](#):
>
> Well, a certain amount of oxygen will dissolve in water at a certain temperature and pressure. But that would be in ALL water at that temperature and pressure, and I’m not sure you can add any more above and beyond that.
Well, that would be the maximum amount of oxygen that could remain suspended; the water could have less, or even none. However, diatomic oxygen is pretty reactive and any minerals or salts will tend to join and be oxidized, so even the maximum oxygen you could pump into the solution will not remain freely available unless the water is very pure.
Stranger
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2013, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-h2o2-be/652768/37 "2013-03-15T06:05:55Z")
Actually, diatomic oxygen is surprisingly inert for what it could be\*, and in water it’s a lot less concentrated than in the air. The only case where I’ve heard of O2 being used as an oxydant in water is in “water purification systems”, where what’s supposed to be getting oxidized is not mineral or salts but organic matter - and those, only in circumstances in which it was impossible to get any information on actual amount of reaction; industrial purifiers don’t use those methods, much less industrial reactors. If you really need to perform oxydation in water you use H2O2, dichromate, permanganate… not oxygen.
- In order to react, two molecules need to be in the same electronic state. Most molecules are singlets in their basic state, that is, in the state that’s less energetic and more frequent, but for O2, the basic state is a triplet and the singlet is an excited state (high energy, lower % of the total). If the singlet was the basic state, the concentration of O2 in air of “about 20%” would be unsustainable, things would start burning at concentrations below 1%.
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#):
>
> I still think it’s a woo-woo product though.
Absolutely right.
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