# What would happen if cosmonauts landed in the USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 29, 2016, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386 "2016-04-29T01:22:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/41 "2016-04-29T16:49:27Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > I’m in total agreement with what everyone else has said about the killing…ASSUMING the US gub’ment were to find them alive. The US gub’ment would certainly not kill them. However, if they landed in some backwoods hillbilly anti-commie deliverance country, all bets are off. “Comrade Pilot, we have landed safely after terrible malfunction! Please open capsule door, and investigate!” [Pilot leaves capsule] [Pilot returns] “Comrade Flight Officer, I have made contact with local authorities! However, I cannot understand what they say! What is meaning of English phrase ‘You sure do got a purdy mouth’?” ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/42 "2016-04-29T18:30:21Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Yes. The Soviets certainly wouldn’t stand for their cosmonauts defecating on foreign soil. :smack: My post was defec(a)tive. > [@Malthus](#): > > “Comrade Flight Officer, I have made contact with local authorities! However, I cannot understand what they say! What is meaning of English phrase ‘You sure do got a purdy mouth’?” It just occurred to me that the two cosmonauts in _Lucifer’s Hammer_ who were orbiting when civilization was destroyed had to land in the United States. The one in command, however, was a man named Jakov, and the Americans in the book who might be mistrustful of a Russian military officer were also the sort to get the giggles upon being introduced to him. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/43 "2016-04-29T18:52:02Z")
Regarding damage from the capsule. There is a [Space Liability Convention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Liability_Convention) from 1972 (but the earlier 1968 treaty covered some of the issues). So far, the only time anyone has invoked it was Canada after the 1977 [Kosmos 954](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosmos_954) crash. But that had nuclear material onboard, something a Soyuz capsule wouldn’t have (I hope). Canada also only got half of the CD$6M they asked for the cleanup. There have been many other incidents of debris landing here and there without any big kerfuffle. Although there was a AUS$400 fine for littering when Skylab came down over Australia. Before these treaties, I think the Soviet attitude would have been to ignore claims. I vaguely recall there is a town in ~Minnesota with a plaque where a Kosmos satellite crashed way back when. IIRC, the US kept the satellite over Soviet opposition. I’m unable to find more online. Anyone remember this? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/44 "2016-04-29T19:34:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, and of course they would also be encouraged to defect. We wouldn’t force them to, but any who did would be treated very well indeed. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > Or given them corvettes. Of course! Good old decadent tire-smoking American V8s! Heck, if the they gave me a Corvette, I’d defect to the US, and I’m already a citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/45 "2016-04-29T22:39:06Z")
In March 1966, when the American Gemini 8 flight had problems and was forced to make an emergency landing, the Soviet Union publically announced they would render any assistance needed to help rescue the astronauts. There was competition but there was also mutual respect between the two space agencies. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/46 "2016-04-29T23:12:50Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > The US government had an elite military unit on alert for every launch NASA made, in case the astronauts came down in hostile territory and needed extraction. I’m not sure if it was a platoon of Marines, Army Rangers, or the alert rotated amongst the services, I’ve slept many years since reading about it. > > I do remember that they were much less uptight about coming down in Soviet territory than Chinese, or that of some little crackpot dictator like today’s Kim Jong Un. The United States Air Force Pararescue Squadrons Recovery Specialists (colloquially known as “parajumpers” or “PJs”) were responsible for search and recovery operations for Apollo and Gemini capsules. They are the divers you see in the water guiding helicopter recovery of the capsules. They are also responsible for search and rescue of downed fliers (for all services) and for search & rescue operations for other special operations units. In other words, they’re 911 first responders for the military elite who find themselves having a bad day. Recovering a Apollo capsule in mid-ocean is like a light after-lunch jog on the beach for them. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/47 "2016-04-29T23:14:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But first - send them to Area 57 for dissection. I was going to say something like "But that’s where Heinz makes their secret sauce. ", but then I read the Urban Dictionary page on [Area 57](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Area+57) :eek: > [@friedo](#): > > There’s a longstanding international convention that aliens who arrive as a result of an emergency (shipwreck, crash, navigation error, etc) are not criminals and should be given aid and comfort and sent on their way. Should have applied that to that Kal-el guy. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/48 "2016-04-29T23:48:55Z")
Did any of the early soviet manned missions pass over the continental US? [Vostok 1](http://www.firstorbit.org/vostok-1-flight-path)went kind of near Hawaii I guess. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/49 "2016-04-30T17:07:39Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Did any of the early soviet manned missions pass over the continental US? [Vostok 1](http://www.firstorbit.org/vostok-1-flight-path)went kind of near Hawaii I guess. [Vostok 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vostok_2) lasted a day which means it definitely went over the US mainland. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/50 "2016-04-30T17:22:49Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I vaguely recall there is a town in ~Minnesota with a plaque where a Kosmos satellite crashed way back when. IIRC, the US kept the satellite over Soviet opposition. I’m unable to find more online. Anyone remember this? [Wisconsin, actually. “Sputnik IV”](http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/12959)—although it was actually a [Vostok testbed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korabl-Sputnik_1). ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/51 "2016-04-30T19:39:58Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > [Wisconsin, actually. “Sputnik IV”](http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/12959)—although it was actually a [Vostok testbed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korabl-Sputnik_1). Excellent. So: It was just a hunk of metal. Nothing of major interest. The US didn’t want it and eventually the Soviets took it back. And the “Buster-ski” on board is assumed to have burned up. But we know better … ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/52 "2016-05-01T19:35:36Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Your commie has no regard for human life, not even his own. And for this reason, men, I want to impress upon you the need for extreme watchfulness. The enemy may come individually, or he may come in strength. He may even come in the uniform of our own troops. But however he comes we must stop him. We must not allow him to gain entrance to this base. Now, I am going to give you three simple rules. First, trust no one, whatever his uniform or rank, unless he is known to you personally. Second, anyone or anything that approaches within 200 yards of the perimeter is to be fired upon. Third, if in doubt, shoot first, and ask questions afterwards. I would sooner accept a few casualties through accident than lose the entire base and its personnel through carelessness. Any variation on these rules must come from me personally. Now, men, in conclusion, I would like to say that, in the two years it has been my privilege to be your commanding officer, I have always expected the best from you, and you have never given me anything less than that. _“Ice cream Mandrake? **Children’s** ice cream?!”_ > [@cochrane](#): > > What I meant was how they would have been treated by our government, not necessarily by the public. They would have been given comfortable lodging, possibly at a U.S. air force base. They would have been treated as officers and gentlemen. They would have been given food and clothing and been treated with respect and camaraderie. As was mentioned, there might be some light debriefing. They would have been treated as any U.S. astronaut at the conclusion of a flight. They would not have been arrested or found themselves facing the barrel of a rifle. They would not have been treated as POWs or enemy spies. They would certainly not have been killed. All diplomatic channels would have been used to transport them back to Mother Russia as quickly and safely as was humanly possible. All true, but at some point US officials would ask any cosmonauts if they wanted to defect. They’d go about it delicately, as to any loyal Soviet serviceman this could easily be considered highly offensive, asking if they want to commit high treason, but it would still be implied to some degree. The Soviets would undoubtedly have done the same with US astronauts. And the idea that some commie-hating rural hillbillies in the US might harm any off-course cosmonauts they encountered is a bit of a stretch. Interestingly, when Yuri Gagarin landed (parachuted) in the USSR after his unannounced launch the local peasant population weren’t really sure what to make of him either. Also, [the Soviets did recover an Apollo capsule](http://www.astronautix.com/articles/sovpsule.htm), but not only was it unmanned it hadn’t even flown in space. It was just a boilerplate model being used for practice by recovery forces and it was lost at sea. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/53 "2016-05-01T20:29:23Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The United States Air Force Pararescue Squadrons Recovery Specialists (colloquially known as “parajumpers” or “PJs”) were responsible for search and recovery operations for Apollo and Gemini capsules. They are the divers you see in the water guiding helicopter recovery of the capsules. They are also responsible for search and rescue of downed fliers (for all services) and for search & rescue operations for other special operations units. In other words, they’re 911 first responders for the military elite who find themselves having a bad day. Recovering a Apollo capsule in mid-ocean is like a light after-lunch jog on the beach for them. > > Stranger Are you sure about this? I was certain that the swimmers that were in the water during the Apollo missions were Navy seals (or frogmen as they were called at the time), not Air Force. And I know for a fact that the Navy has their own teams for the recovery of their pilots in the water. Not saying that Air Force doesn’t have a similar cadre, but there is no way the Air Force has 100% of that capability or that they do that for Navy. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/54 "2016-05-01T21:27:54Z")
Yes, it seems to me the ocean Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo recoveries were strictly Navy operations. Although, come to think of it, I think I did read that there was a minor USAF/USN turf skirmish during the Aurora 7 (Carpenter’s Mercury flight) recovery. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/55 "2016-05-01T22:18:47Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Are you sure about this? I was certain that the swimmers that were in the water during the Apollo missions were Navy seals (or frogmen as they were called at the time), not Air Force. > > And I know for a fact that the Navy has their own teams for the recovery of their pilots in the water. Not saying that Air Force doesn’t have a similar cadre, but there is no way the Air Force has 100% of that capability or that they do that for Navy. I cannot say definitively that every Apollo recovery operation was peformed by USAF Pararescue, but I personanlly knew a PJ that was a participant in several Gemini recovery operations, and I know that they are responsible for STS and SLS recovery operations should something end up in the drink or on foreign soil. ‘Frogmen’ is a general term for Navy divers including those involved in underwater demolitions/mine clearing, construction, vessel rescue and recovery, et cetera; SEALs are specifically tasked with counterterrorism, counterinsurgency, and reconnissance operations. They are not specifically trained for search and rescue operations, although they do have training for specific types of recovery operations (specifically those involving nuclear weapons and materials). USAF Pararescue is the only force in the US special operations community that is dedicated to search and rescue operations (they also have units that are not considered part of USSOCOM which perform general SAR) and provide support for all services as well as foreign military and civilians, often helping train and support federal, state, and volunteer rescue services. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/56 "2016-05-02T12:14:43Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I cannot say definitively that every Apollo recovery operation was peformed by USAF Pararescue, but I personanlly knew a PJ that was a participant in several Gemini recovery operations, and I know that they are responsible for STS and SLS recovery operations should something end up in the drink or on foreign soil. > > ‘Frogmen’ is a general term for Navy divers including those involved in underwater demolitions/mine clearing, construction, vessel rescue and recovery, et cetera; SEALs are specifically tasked with counterterrorism, counterinsurgency, and reconnissance operations. They are not specifically trained for search and rescue operations, although they do have training for specific types of recovery operations (specifically those involving nuclear weapons and materials). USAF Pararescue is the only force in the US special operations community that is dedicated to search and rescue operations (they also have units that are not considered part of USSOCOM which perform general SAR) and provide support for all services as well as foreign military and civilians, often helping train and support federal, state, and volunteer rescue services. > > Stranger During Apollo, NASA had on staff a SEAL that was in charge of packing the spacecraft parachutes, and the recovery guys in the water had way more qualifications than the basic diver or CG rescue jumper. If they did not have SEAL qualifications, they were durned close. That doesn’t rule out the AF Pararescue, just that they had different missions regarding spaceflight recovery. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/57 "2016-05-02T18:33:50Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I cannot say definitively that every Apollo recovery operation was peformed by USAF Pararescue, but I personanlly knew a PJ that was a participant in several Gemini recovery operations, and I know that they are responsible for STS and SLS recovery operations should something end up in the drink or on foreign soil. > > ‘Frogmen’ is a general term for Navy divers including those involved in underwater demolitions/mine clearing, construction, vessel rescue and recovery, et cetera; SEALs are specifically tasked with counterterrorism, counterinsurgency, and reconnissance operations. They are not specifically trained for search and rescue operations, although they do have training for specific types of recovery operations (specifically those involving nuclear weapons and materials). USAF Pararescue is the only force in the US special operations community that is dedicated to search and rescue operations (they also have units that are not considered part of USSOCOM which perform general SAR) and provide support for all services as well as foreign military and civilians, often helping train and support federal, state, and volunteer rescue services. > > Stranger I don’t want to go too far off thread here, but I still take exception to much of this. The Frogmen/UDT/SEAL organization has certainly morphed over time. Current SEALS do more than Frogmen did in their day. But my earlier statement is correct - Frogmen were the pre-cursor to SEALS. And that transformation was somewhat gradual from Korea through the Viet Nam war. And I’m not really sure that the statement “USAF Pararescue is the only force in the US special operations community that is dedicated to search and rescue operations” means. Certainly there are search and rescue facets of the SEALs (heck, part of their mission is personnel recovery and hostage rescue). DELTA Force and other Spec-ops units do it, and the Services non-spec ops community has search and rescue as well. It sounds like Air Force PR and word smithing to me. Bottom line is Navy was a significant player if not the major player in the American manned space recovery missions. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/58 "2016-05-02T21:52:19Z")
Underwater Demolitions Technicians were the precursors to the SEa Air Land teams, and before them Amphibious Scouts and the Operational Swimmers teams that were seconded to the OSS. ‘Frogman’ generically refers to any Navy personnel who are rated to perform operations using diving apparatus including construction, demolition, harbor clearing, reconnaissance, emergency medicine, and various scientific endeavors. SEALs are specifically a counterterrorism and counterinsurgency force with other secondary missions suited to their training, experience in clandestine operations, and security clearance level. While all services have people trained in SAR operations, the USAF Pararescue is the only organization in the DoD that is specifically chartered with performing global SAR operations in all environments and in hostile territory. Whenever there is a downed flier (of any service) behind enemy lines, or a warfighter known to be in need of aid in unsecured or enemy territory, Pararescue is almost always brought in to support search and recovery efforts and provide on-site medical support in addition to the member service’s medics/corpsmen. Pararescue Special Tactics units are well integrated into USSOCOM and PJs are often deployed with Special Operations groups from other services and the CIA Special Activites Division. (Not all PJs are part of AFSOCOM; roughly half are in non-SOCOM Rescue Squadrons performing SAR operations outside of the special operations community, but the specialty is considered special operations capable and members can rotate between duty in STS and RS billets.) In the _AFSC 1T2XX Pararescue Speciality Career Field Education and Training Plan_ ([here](http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a3_5/publication/cfetp1t2xx/cfetp1t2xx.pdf)) under Tasks, Knowledge, and Technical References you can see that Section 6.1.3 specifically calls out "Perform Technical Rescue and Recovery for: 6.1.3 NASA Astronauts. [Here](http://www.au.af.mil/au/afri/aspj/airchronicles/aureview/1967/may-jun/brooks.html) is a description of Gemini recovery operations performed by PJs. I know for a fact that Pararescue was trained and intended as first responders for a Shuttle abort/landing, and will provide the same support for Orion and CST-100 when and if they fly on SLS. I haven’t found a definitive reference online in my five minutes of looking regarding Apollo recovery, but I do have a book in the Sprinter Praxis Spaceflight Series entitled _Space Rescue: Ensuring the Safety of Manned Spaceflight_ (unfortunately at home or in storage, so I can’t cite directly from it) which has a chapter on search and recovery operations including how NASA uses USAF Pararescue at their primary first responder force. The USN certainly had a significant role in recovery of the Apollo spacecraft and astronauts and may well have had divers in the water, but Pararescue was also significantly involved in this and other NASA astronaut recovery efforts. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/59 "2016-05-02T23:04:59Z")
So all of this leads to the question: when did you serve in the Air Force 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386/60 "2016-05-03T00:31:29Z")
Oh, for fuck’s sake…I’ve never served in any branch of the military, much less as a PJ. My only stake in the issue is factual accuracy. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-cosmonauts-landed-in-the-usa/753386.md?page=4)