# What would happen if the government raised enlistment age from 18 to 21? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 9, 2022, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907 "2022-06-09T04:36:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/21 "2022-06-09T18:14:55Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > large part of enlisting in the military is that it is the only way for many to pay for college. If they have to wait until 21 before they can even enlist, that puts them even further behind. What percentage of enlistees use that perk? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/22 "2022-06-09T18:23:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What percentage of enlistees use that perk? I suspect it’s a lot higher post-9/11 than it was historically. The post-9/11 GI Bill, unlike the Montgomery GI Bill that preceded it, is actually very generous. So generous that I’m attending a $65k a year (not counting room/board—which the post-9/11 GI Bill also essentially covers) law school on it right now. _And I wasn’t even an enlistee_ (but commissioned). The real question now is… what percentage of enlistees actually use that perk to good effect, rather than get hustled out of it by some for-profit online diploma mill? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/23 "2022-06-09T20:12:58Z")
My brother (barely) graduated HS with no life plan. He worked as a supermarket checker for 6 months, then joined the Air Force at 19. Four years later he knew what he wanted to do, went to college, then got a master’s in CS and had a successful career as a free-lance computer consultant. Incidentally, the requirements for automatic admission to Penn State for residents of the commonwealth were that the sum of your HS quintile and SAT quintile had to 6 or lower. His sum was exactly 6: fifth quintile in HS and first in the SAT. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/24 "2022-06-09T20:26:10Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > The problem is that this is (I think) the _only_ federal work program, unless you count the peace corps. I would love it if there was a way for young people to get jobs and serve their country without it being a part of the military. There is the [Job Corps](https://www.jobcorps.gov/) > Job Corps is the largest nationwide residential career training program in the country and has been operating for more than 50 years. The program helps eligible young people ages 16 through 24 complete their high school education, trains them for meaningful careers, and assists them with obtaining employment. Job Corps has trained and educated over two million individuals since 1964. This program was modeled on the CCC and was a part of LBJ’s Great Society programs back in the '60s. These days, it helps about 60,000 people a year. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/25 "2022-06-09T22:21:51Z")
In the other thread [I suggested](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/house-raises-the-age-to-buy-semi-automatic-rifles-to-21/965901/17) raising the age for military service to 21. 50+ years ago I marched for giving 18-year olds the right to vote. My reasoning was the same as most people’s - if you were old enough to be drafted into the military and be sent off to Vietnam, you should be allowed to vote, drink, and do everything else adults could do. It took me a few years to realize that was the wrong approach. Instead of marching to lower the voting age, we should have marched to raise the age for military service. The military doesn’t need a bunch of teenagers to be cannon fodder anymore. It needs recruits with the ability to think, as well as the patriotic spirit to serve their country. Other posters in this thread have mentioned that many recruits use their GI benefits to pay for college. IMHO that’s the wrong reason to agree to enlist. For that matter, the skills someone learns in the military are only adjuncts to the fundamental reason for being in the military. The U.S. needs to have ways to, as @steronz said, “Take kids directly out of high school, put them to work in a very structured environment, teach them a skill. Give them an opportunity to move away from any bad influences at home.” Dumping them on the armed forces to force them to grow up isn’t fair to either them or the military. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/26 "2022-06-09T23:49:15Z")
And wouldn’t it help with the burned-out with PTSD and other problems they face when they get home? I mean I’ve seen people that were my age come back worse than my relatives who were in Vietnam ever were… ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/27 "2022-06-10T00:07:29Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > A 4-year enlistment with training and college funds would do everything the military does, without the whole “get shot at” stuff. Especially if the training offered the option of going heavy on the practical, blue-collar side like heavy equipment operation and general construction. I’d think the Corps of Engineers would be thrilled at the new pool of CoE bodies. Is there an option to join the military but just in a support role? That is, just do something like work at a stateside motor pool and never get deployed into combat zones? If so, then that might be an existing track that already is a funded option. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/28 "2022-06-10T01:19:20Z")
@filmore It depends on your MOS, or Military Occupation Specialty. Depending on your branch of service you can select the job you want, as long as your test scores support your choice. In the Army, you can be guaranteed the exact job. In the Air Force, you choose a _career field_ and the AF decides which job within that career field suits their needs, and maybe even your preference. A file clerk or a librarian would probably keep you off the front lines. BUT everyone gets the same basic training, where you have to learn about war, following your leaders, crawling through the mud, scaling walls, and how to shoot a weapon. If you know exactly what to ask for, _and_ it is available when you process through AFEES\* then you can get a Stateside assignment. I’m not positive, but I think that is good for the first 18 months. Every-damned-thing, though, is ultimately for the good of the military. Disclaimer: my info is over thirty years old. ~VOW - AFEES Armed Forces Entrance Examination Station ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/29 "2022-06-10T01:30:02Z")
Found this on [military.com](https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/the-top-3-reasons-you-could-fail-basic-training.html) under the heading _The Top 3 Reasons You Could Fail Basic Training_ > Someone might have told you that joining the military is a great source for repaying college loans (which is true). Someone also might have told you that joining the military will provide some direction and structure in your life (which is also true). However, if you aren’t joining the military because you genuinely want to be there and serve your country, your chances of failure skyrocket. Mentally, you will have a very difficult time understanding why you are truly there, why you should continue being there and why you shouldn’t just get up and walk away (i.e. go AWOL). It is perfectly fine to join the military for the aforementioned reasons. However, the underlying reason must be for the love of your country and the true belief that you live in the greatest country in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/30 "2022-06-10T02:01:16Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > > [@silenus](#): > > > > A 4-year enlistment with training and college funds would do everything the military does, without the whole “get shot at” stuff. Especially if the training offered the option of going heavy on the practical, blue-collar side like heavy equipment operation and general construction. I’d think the Corps of Engineers would be thrilled at the new pool of CoE bodies. > > Is there an option to join the military but just in a support role? That is, just do something like work at a stateside motor pool and never get deployed into combat zones? If so, then that might be an existing track that already is a funded option. no cite but I’ve read it’s only 15-20% of the military are ‘warriors’; the rest are some sort of support. Obviously some are more forward deployed than others but even forward-deployed cooks & vehicle maintainers are not typically in harms way the way, say, scouts are. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/31 "2022-06-10T02:03:43Z")
@Kent_Clark Thank you for that! It’s beautiful! Serving in the military is an honorable profession. Too many think that military service is for people too stupid to do anything else. Shame on them! ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/32 "2022-06-10T02:19:10Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > what percentage of enlistees actually use that perk to good effect, rather than get hustled out of it by some for-profit online diploma mill? I was in the Army during the Montgomery G.I. bill era. As I was approaching the end of my enlistment, I got help from an on-base service to apply to colleges. They steered me away from known diploma mills. I assume that the modern military still provides this same service. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/33 "2022-06-10T03:07:22Z")
I mean, whether or not servicemembers get such advice is kind of beside the point (though I have no doubt it was part of the mandatory transition course pre-separation/retirement, not that I remember much of anything actually covered during that utterly worthless “training”). The reality is that enough do end up with essentially worthless degrees (or no degree at all) that it is a known phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/34 "2022-06-10T13:51:03Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > Every-damned-thing, though, is ultimately for the good of the military. This is the most important bit, I think. I signed up with a guaranteed job (computer programmer) which all but assured I would never deploy. And yet, at the height of OIF, one of my coworkers was non-voled to 12 month deployment as a convoy driver. That’s the ultimate risk of signing on the line. (He served his deployment without issue). But as you say, even the support roles are ultimately in support of our military efforts. There are probably dozens of jobs that could be done stateside in support of a national security posture. The military understands that in order to fight and win, we need reliable food supplies, a solid manufacturing base, an _educated_ and _healthy_ population to both serve in the military and to support any prolonged engagements we might fight. It would be great if we had a national service corps for farming, or health care, or education, or manufacturing, where young people could literally serve their country doing the things that private companies are doing to serve their shareholders. There was a point in time during and after WWII when Americans understood how important these things were; when being a civil servant in, say, the department of public health or the department of education, was seen for the importance it deserves. But Republicans now consider those jobs to be useless, and those departments to be superfluous. Rather than expanding on ways for people to serve their country, it’s all been eroded to the point where the _military_ is pretty much all that’s left. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/35 "2022-06-10T14:09:22Z")
@steronz Dare I say, most of the military support positions have been privatized. This is done under the aegis of “saving money,” and I will be merciful and kind and not go into my tantrums about “contracting out.” My biggest tantrums occurred during the second Middle East war under Bush v.2.0. I found out that goods were transported all over the Middle East for the use and support of our troops, and the work was done by a civilian firm who got the job through a no-bid contract. The firm was an arm of Halliburton. Gah, I’m still mad about that! ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/36 "2022-06-10T19:07:22Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > However, if you aren’t joining the military because you genuinely want to be there and serve your country, your chances of failure skyrocket. Yeah, but when you don’t see any other options as a way out of generational poverty, you make do with what you have. > [@VOW](#): > > Too many think that military service is for people too stupid to do anything else. Shame on them! I’ve never heard anyone say that. I’ve heard that exact sentiment said about food service workers, sanitation workers, even teachers, but never about the military. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/37 "2022-06-10T19:39:25Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > 18-year-olds are much more malleable than a 21-year-old. As Judge Judy said, “They aren’t cooked yet!” Male brains aren’t really ready for the complexities of life until 25 or 30. Statistically it’s 26, I’d say. That’s when the cost of car insurance for a young man drops precipitously. But there’s a world of difference between 21 and 18. Whether it’s because most people at 21 have had 3 or so years of “real world” experience, or because their brains are more developed, or some combination of both, or if there are other factors I don’t know. But 21 seems to be the “not a _total_ idiot” age. One advantage(?) of 18 year old enlistees is that they can join the military, do a four year enlistment, and when they get out, they’re at about the same age as college graduates. So they can either go straight into some civilian job, or go GI bill and not be quite so far behind. Most 21 year olds are going to have had to figure _something_ out for 3 years between high school and military service, and many of them will have debt, or be invested in some way- girlfriends/wives, children, promising careers, etc… So I bet the quality of recruits would be lower, as the motivated types would figure out how to go to college, or go be successful in something else. Only the people who shat the bed on the 3 year delay would be interested in a military career at that point. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/38 "2022-06-10T19:55:04Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The recruiters presumably have a harder time taking advantage of 16-18 year olds and their more impressionable minds than (hopefully) savvier and wiser 20-22 year olds. I do not get the idea that enlistment in the Military is being “taken advantage of”. It can be an excellent choice. However, back to the OP, what we need to do is start selective service at 21, not 18, but still allow enlistment at 18, even 17 in some cases. > [@steronz](#): > > The real travesty is that the US military as an _outstanding_ federal work program. Take kids directly out of high school, put them to work in a very structured environment, teach them a skill. Give them an opportunity to move away from any bad influences at home. Right. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/39 "2022-06-10T21:14:32Z")
As a few of my fellow Airmen learned, that can change very quickly. They were originally deployed as escorts for third country nationals, but ended up riding in convoys, where some saw combat. These were aircraft maintainers, supply troops, admin troops, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/40 "2022-06-10T21:39:19Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Might be that interim period in a persons life is a more opportune target? > Out of high school. If not confirmed to be bound for higher education, a person may be more apt to consider the military as a first step into fending for ones self. I know that it isn’t really that. But it is a job. Possible career. Has benefits. > If such a person has had a couple years after high school to at least been employed and had a taste of self sufficient life, they may not be so tempted by a military life. I agree. I saw the results of a somewhat similar change. I used to work for the New York Department of Corrections. In the early eighties, they raised the age limit for new employees from eighteen to twenty-one. I feel it had a negative effect on the pool of employees we were recruiting from. At eighteen, a lot of people are graduating from high school and looking for a career. If you hire them then, you have a potential employee for the next twenty-five or more years. At twenty-one, people have been out of high school for a few years. So you need to ask what they’ve been doing since high school. Sitting around the house? Working menial jobs? The best employees have all been working in their chosen careers for three years. They’re not looking to switch to a new job. (It’s not like working in a prison is a glamor job.) At twenty-one, you’re hiring the scraps. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907.md?page=3)