# What would happen if the government raised enlistment age from 18 to 21? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 9, 2022, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907 "2022-06-09T04:36:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/41 "2022-06-10T23:55:37Z")
It’s been answered already, but the fact is that the military exists on the back of 18 year-old dumbasses. Give them another 3 years to start figuring life out, and nobody enlists. A Lt. (not a particularly bright one) in my company said one time “The perfect Marine is a 4 year-old on steroids.” ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/42 "2022-06-11T00:21:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > At twenty-one, you’re hiring the scraps. The people who were given the choice between jail or the military at 18, and then couldn’t make it through their first enlistment! (I mean, there’s a joke in there about going from jail or the military, to the military or jail, right? When you end up working at the DoC at 21 following an abbreviated stint in the military?) ETA: And as a PSA, I should note that as well-worn as the “jail or the military” trope is, that’s actually a disqualifier for military service these days. Has been for a while. So ironically, the judge that gives you such a choice is effectively denying you the option to serve forever if you take him or her up on it (unless you choose jail, that is—in which case whether you’re disqualified or not will depend on the crime and how hard up the Army is for recruits). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/43 "2022-06-11T01:28:10Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > So ironically, the judge that gives you such a choice is effectively denying you the option to serve forever if you take him or her up on it Which is why judges haven’t done this for several decades. Joining the military nowadays is a voluntary career choice. Not something people get forced to do by a judge or a draft board. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/44 "2022-06-11T04:03:09Z")
In the LDS church, they were facing declining numbers of Mormon missionaries so they changed the rules to lower the age from 19 to 18 for men. Even one year had a difference in the number of people who applied. I would guess that the younger the person, the more likely they are to accept authority. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/45 "2022-06-20T13:52:10Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > I would guess that the younger the person, the more likely they are to accept authority. I don’t see this as being about age vs. willingness to follow at all, and more about social entry/exit points. Allowing 18 year olds to join allows people to join out of high school without skipping a beat. That’s as true of missionary work as the military. Anything else and it becomes a lot messier. You’re requiring people to find something to do to fill the gap, but then hoping that it’s something they are willing and able to give up just as swiftly as they’d give up high school on graduation. Consider also that on a standard four year enlistment, the same 18 year olds that are allegedly so much better at following orders than 19 or 21 year olds _will be_ 19 and 21 year olds while still expected to follow orders. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/46 "2022-06-20T14:16:28Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Consider also that on a standard four year enlistment, the same 18 year olds that are allegedly so much better at following orders than 19 or 21 year olds _will be_ 19 and 21 year olds while still expected to follow orders. Yeah, I wonder if it makes a difference on age of the initial indoctrination. If younger kids are easier to mold. Once they are molded, then they will continue to be better at following orders. I’ve heard that before, but not from any formal studies or anything so it’s just something I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/47 "2022-06-20T15:03:31Z")
I’d be real interested to see what the military thinks of its recruits over the last several years, and the next several. We have a huge cohort of teenagers who have gone feral because of Covid. I wonder how much harder they will be to train and retain? ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/48 "2022-06-20T15:17:09Z")
I enlisted in the Air Force at 17. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/49 "2022-06-20T22:50:45Z")
Is it worth wondering why joining the military and literally gambling your life is seen as a “viable” career move for many people? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/50 "2022-06-21T21:35:16Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > We have a huge cohort of teenagers who have gone feral because of Covid. I wonder how much harder they will be to train and retain? First you have to recruit them. Which I hear was tough when schools were remote and recruiters couldn’t show up to make their pitch in person. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2022, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/51 "2022-06-21T22:14:35Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I’d be real interested to see what the military thinks of its recruits over the last several years, and the next several. We have a huge cohort of teenagers who have gone feral because of Covid. I wonder how much harder they will be to train and retain? Have they gone feral though? I mean I guess they could have, depending on what you mean by feral, but it would seem to me that they would be less feral, what with the lock downs and closer supervision and all. I joined at 25, damn near got an article 15 in basic (one of the drill sergeants left the paperwork “sitting on his desk”) went on to get an honorable discharge after getting into a yelling match with my platoon sgt about going to the promotion board and then pldc (I think they call it leadership class or something now) and changing my sham-shield for 3 stripes. I wasn’t interested, up or out policy be damned! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/52 "2022-06-21T23:20:06Z")
> [@DorkVader](#): > > Have they gone feral though? I mean I guess they could have, depending on what you mean by feral, but it would seem to me that they would be less feral, what with the lock downs and **closer supervision** and all. You sweet summer child. They had virtually zero supervision during lockdown. Zero socialization with people who are different than they are. They are feral. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/53 "2022-06-22T00:11:26Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > They had virtually zero supervision during lockdown. Zero socialization with people who are different than they are. They are feral. You just described military life after boot camp! ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/54 "2022-06-22T18:26:25Z")
well, the socialization part I can’t argue with too much, but the supervision part, eh, depends I guess. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/55 "2022-06-23T08:32:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The ads for recruitment talk about seeing the world, getting college paid for, things like that. They don’t talk about having to go to a country half around the world to kill people. {…} What they really don’t talk about is going to a country half way around the world to kill people who will be trying to kill you too. One would wonder why, if it wasn’t so obvious. One would also wonder why volunteering at a VA hospital for a couple of weeks isn’t mandatory so you have a very clear understanding exactly what one possible outcome of what you’re signing up for is, if it wasn’t so obvious. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/56 "2022-06-26T01:32:49Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > What they really don’t talk about is going to a country half way around the world to kill people who will be trying to kill you too. > One would wonder why, if it wasn’t so obvious. What’s really mind-blowing is the next level of contemplation, when it occurs to you that maybe the people trying to kill you have a point, and… it might be morally wrong to exercise self-defense if threatened (and yet you know, deep down, that you aren’t such a morally upstanding individual as to _actually_ refrain from self-defense if threatened). Not sure how prevalent that realization is, though. > One would also wonder why volunteering at a VA hospital for a couple of weeks isn’t mandatory so you have a very clear understanding exactly what one possible outcome of what you’re signing up for is, if it wasn’t so obvious. If you actually go to a VA hospital, what you will be struck by first will be the number of elderly people there. That’s my observation from wandering the halls of the VA hospitals and clinics I have gotten (piss poor) treatment in. They’re sold as serving veterans, and I suppose in the most literal sense they are, but not generally in the way you would imagine. For every wrecked survivor of one of the nation’s many wars, there are a dozen old dudes who spent two years handing out basketballs in Colorado. They are geriatric care facilities, partly due to the demographics of the veteran population (there are a lot more elderly folks who spent a couple years in the military during the draft or even the immediate post-Vietnam era when short stints in the military were common, and the military was larger, than there are recent vets of any stripe, let alone combat vets) and partly because the VA healthcare system is being used as a crutch to provide the “deserving” poor (military veterans) access to basic healthcare that would otherwise be denied them because this country’s healthcare system is dysfunctional at best (ie: the VA) and nonexistent at worst (ie: what everyone who is poor but didn’t serve in the military for a couple years during the Ford administration gets). ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/57 "2022-06-26T01:41:09Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Therese a dozen old dudes who spent two years handing out basketballs in Colorado. You don’t know enough about these”old dudes” to be so dismissive and disrespectful. My big brother came back from two tours in Da Nang 100% disabled by invisible injuries. He protected me and took care of me all of our childhood, then he needed care. It changed my life as well as his. Combat vets tend to not brag or draw attention to their service. Give those “old dudes” the respect they deserve whether you think they deserve it or not. While I’m at it, don’t disrespect or devalue the middle-aged dudes either. My son-in-law came back from Iraq and Kosovo with invisible injuries. He just turned 40 and has to live with those injuries the rest of his life. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/58 "2022-06-26T01:42:50Z")
If the shoe doesn’t fit, don’t wear it. I don’t know what else to say. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/59 "2022-06-26T01:51:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > At twenty-one, you’re hiring the scraps. That’s the catch indeed. Lots of people make a choice of job, college, or the military at 18 right out of high school. If you delay until 21, then that choice has been made 3 years before, and you’re getting people who couldn’t hack college, or a job, or a very few who bided their time until they could enlist. Maybe some sort of compromise would be reasonable- like enlist at 18 or even 17, but no overseas deployments until 21, or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Terrific](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tom_terrific/32/342_2.png) [@Tom\_Terrific](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Terrific)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907/60 "2022-06-26T13:45:10Z")
How about you shove that shoe up your ass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-government-raised-enlistment-age-from-18-to-21/965907.md?page=4)