# What would happen if the President went nuts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 2, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168 "2010-11-02T03:10:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iamnotbatman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@iamnotbatman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotbatman)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/1 "2010-11-02T03:10:28Z")
Suppose the President went batshit crazy and started throwing his poo around, shooting into crowds, on camera, etc. A problem of immediate concern where the impeachment process would be too slow. Can the president be thrown in jail, or held in any way, legally? Is there any semi-official protocol other than outright ‘mutiny’/‘coup’? How much power does the presidential doctor have? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/2 "2010-11-02T03:24:37Z")
I posted a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=441881) that touched on this a few years ago. > [@Two Related Questions about Insane Presidents](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-related-questions-about-insane-presidents/424321/2): > > As to your first question, Section 4 of the 25th Amendment to the US Constitution provides: > > Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. > > Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives has written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/3 "2010-11-02T03:25:57Z")
Succession would be covered by the [25th Amendment:](http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am25) > [@](#): > > 1. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. > > Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office. So it’s up to the Vice President and a majority of the Cabinet to decide. In a crisis, the Veep and the Cabinet would probably be able to convene and take over within a matter of hours. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/4 "2010-11-02T03:26:41Z")
I seem to recall that some of Nixon’s aides were concerned that he was becoming depressed and behaving irrationally during the later days of the Watergate affair, and discussed (informally) what they could do if Dick went off the deep end. However, I don’t have a good cite for this, so take it with a grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/5 "2010-11-02T03:32:36Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > I seem to recall that some of Nixon’s aides were concerned that he was becoming depressed and behaving irrationally during the later days of the Watergate affair, and discussed (informally) what they could do if Dick went off the deep end. However, I don’t have a good cite for this, so take it with a grain of salt. I think Cecil talked about something like that in one of his columns; something about the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff issuing orders that he be informed of any “unusual orders from the White house”. “In case Nixon decided to torch the world in a fit of pique” was the phrase Cecil used I think. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/6 "2010-11-02T04:00:03Z")
You can fling a lot of poo in twenty-one days. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/7 "2010-11-02T04:13:42Z")
I know we’ve talked about this a zillion times, but refresh my memory: if the POTUS goes into a McDonald’s and starts mowing everybody down with an Uzi, what immediately happens? Can he be arrested by the Metro PD and tossed in the D.C. jail? What if he or she goes into a Walmart and shoplifts a Snickers bar and Walmart insists on pressing charges? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/8 "2010-11-02T04:19:00Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > You can fling a lot of poo in twenty-one days. That sets a maximum, not a minimum. If Congress were in session, and there were a clear cut emergency, even if the President was coherent enough to declare himself capable the whole set of procedures could be run through in a matter of hours. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/9 "2010-11-02T14:35:02Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > I know we’ve talked about this a zillion times, but refresh my memory: if the POTUS goes into a McDonald’s and starts mowing everybody down with an Uzi, what immediately happens? Can he be arrested by the Metro PD and tossed in the D.C. jail? What if he or she goes into a Walmart and shoplifts a Snickers bar and Walmart insists on pressing charges? I don’t see why the cops couldn’t arrest - the President doesn’t enjoy any sort of criminal immunity by virtue of his office. And the Secret Service is, after all, a law enforcement agency - unless the cops were beating the President for giggles, they’d be unlikely to interfere. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/10 "2010-11-02T14:56:14Z")
If memory serves, William Safire wrote a novel in which the President is struck blind. The VP invokes the 25th amendment, and a power struggle ensues. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/11 "2010-11-02T14:56:21Z")
Ulysses S. Grant got a ticket for driving his horse too fast while he was president. The fine was $20, a much larger penalty then than now. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/12 "2010-11-02T15:06:55Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > I don’t see why the cops couldn’t arrest - the President doesn’t enjoy any sort of criminal immunity by virtue of his office. And the Secret Service is, after all, a law enforcement agency - unless the cops were beating the President for giggles, they’d be unlikely to interfere. An arrest doesn’t remove the President from office, you’d have to go through the impeachment process to do that for a crime. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/13 "2010-11-02T15:49:19Z")
There is (kind of) a historical precedent for this. Woodrow Wilson was mostly incapacitated by a stroke during his second term. There is persuasive evidence that he was _non compos mentis_ for several months, and it is likely that he never regained his full faculties. His wife Edith essentially ran the country. She claimed to be speaking for him, but there is some doubt whether she actually did, or just pursued her own agenda. There is some interesting speculation that had Wilson recused himself, or been removed from office Vice president Thomas Marshall could have persuaded the country to join the League of Nations with the possible result that WW2 might have been prevented. SS ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/14 "2010-11-03T09:03:29Z")
disregard! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/15 "2010-11-03T15:14:27Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > If memory serves, William Safire wrote a novel in which the President is struck blind. The VP invokes the 25th amendment, and a power struggle ensues. Yes, _Full Disclosure_ (1978). Not a bad political novel, all in all. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/16 "2010-11-03T15:21:41Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Ulysses S. Grant got a ticket for driving his horse too fast while he was president. The fine was $20, a much larger penalty then than now. What’s the penalty now for driving your horse too fast? ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/17 "2010-11-03T15:57:07Z")
Did you watch last night elections results? That’s what happens. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/18 "2010-11-03T15:59:21Z")
Amish remedial driving school. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/19 "2010-11-03T16:05:42Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > Amish remedial driving school. What goes “Clop clop clop bang bang bang clop clop clop”? An Amish drive-by shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168/20 "2010-11-03T18:10:30Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > Did you watch last night elections results? That’s what happens. [Moderator Note] Let’s refrain from political jabs in GQ. No warning issued. Colibri General Questions Moderator [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-president-went-nuts/559168.md?page=2)