# What would happen if the U.S. opened its borders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526 "2006-12-17T18:19:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/41 "2007-01-06T20:41:24Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] You’ve obviously never been in a Third World country. The U.S. could absorb fifty million Mexicans in ten years and still not even be close to Third World status. [/QUOTE] Haven’t visited the Texas counties along the border lately, have you? ---
**Author:** ![Molly\_Polly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Molly\_Polly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Molly_Polly)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/42 "2007-01-06T20:55:54Z")
If they opened the borders (still checking for criminals, etd.) nothing would change. Except the lines would either get shorter or longer, depending on who you talk to, but that could be solved by putting more or fewer people in the guard stations. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/43 "2007-01-06T20:57:21Z")
[QUOTE=Clothahump] Haven’t visited the Texas counties along the border lately, have you? [/QUOTE] I have. It’s not anything like a Third World country. Except for the ethnic makeup of the people. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/44 "2007-01-06T22:03:14Z")
[QUOTE=Opus1] The idea that we are “out of new goods” is so ludicrous I don’t even know where to begin. Human ingenuity is the ultimate resource, and there will always be new goods and services demanded. [/quote] Really? Since a lot of our manufacturing has shipped overseas, how many new products have sprung up that are being manufactured here? None really. Most new things coming down the pike are being made in 3rd world countries, or are non-labor intesive. The low end jobs that most of the population has to work has shrunk to about as far as it can…its not growing. > [@](#): > > As far as depressing wages, I still think my point isn’t coming across: some wages will probably go down. As a whole, however, real wages will not decrease. Imagine what would happen if a plague came along and killed everyone in America without a high school diploma. Would us survivors be better off, since a source of cheap labor would be gone? Of course not! And yet some people would have us believe that cheap labor is a problem, rather than a benefit. Again, there is a balance point. You dont want everyone making 100k a year for working at mcdonalds…but you dont want a ruling class and a nation of slaves either. Rediculous extremes aside. You want everyone making a decent living for a healthy economy. Too cheap of labor is problem unless you want to be a third world country. > [@](#): > > [Here](http://cafehayek.typepad.com/hayek/immigration/index.html) are some excellent essays on the economics of immigration, which demonstrate the mainstream economists’ viewpoint that immigration is a giant benefit to an economy, the same as any other free trade. yes…there are some economists who are short sighted and buy into anarchocapitalism. They are just as unrealistic as hard core communists…just the other end of the scale. In the real world…most people are not doctors or lawyers or engineers. You only need so many MBA’s. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/45 "2007-01-06T22:05:46Z")
[QUOTE=Unregistered Bull] I have. It’s not anything like a Third World country. Except for the ethnic makeup of the people. [/QUOTE] You dont have to go to border. Go to certain neighborhoods of DFW and you will see third world living conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/46 "2007-01-06T22:18:39Z")
[QUOTE=bdgr] You dont have to go to border. Go to certain neighborhoods of DFW and you will see third world living conditions. [/QUOTE] How so? I didn’t even think that there were any Colonias there. Not that I consider Colonias third world, more of a unique first world problem. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/47 "2007-01-06T22:23:16Z")
[QUOTE=Opus1] Imagine what would happen if a plague came along and killed everyone in America without a high school diploma. Would us survivors be better off, since a source of cheap labor would be gone? [/QUOTE] Actually, yes, we probably would be better off, even if it meant having to do our own manual labor. But that’s neither here nor there. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2007, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/48 "2007-01-07T02:41:30Z")
[QUOTE=Clothahump] Haven’t visited the Texas counties along the border lately, have you? [/QUOTE] Thanks for proving my point. You haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. The U.S. could absorb ten million immigrants a year and remain an economic superpower with a high standard of living, assuming the government didn’t do something to fuck it up (an admittedly very possible thing.) That’s a conservative guess, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2007, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/49 "2007-01-07T07:38:51Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Thanks for proving my point. You haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. The U.S. could absorb ten million immigrants a year and remain an economic superpower with a high standard of living, assuming the government didn’t do something to fuck it up (an admittedly very possible thing.) That’s a conservative guess, I’d say. [/QUOTE] We dont have a high standard of living now in a lot of places. As long as we have working poor who have to draw welfare to survive on top of their full time job, no we cant absorb that many. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2007, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/50 "2007-01-07T07:52:02Z")
[QUOTE=Unregistered Bull] How so? I didn’t even think that there were any Colonias there. Not that I consider Colonias third world, more of a unique first world problem. [/QUOTE] Not any Colonias that I know about…although a Colonia is kinda of a slice of thrid world of its own. But there are equally unsafe and impoverished areas. scattered around the metroplex There isnt really a good definition of third world that I’m aware of…which I guess is part of the problem But we have areas with groups of people living in overcrowded unsanitary conditions and working off the books for very lille money. Is it as bad as some other places on the planet? Probably not. But its still not good. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/51 "2007-01-10T20:40:24Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] C) See if I can move to Canada. They look like they’ve got the whole “Remnants of Britain in North America” thing going. Plus I can go Moose Hunting. 😃 [/quote] In that case you’d have the same face on all your coins that you do now. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Seriously though, why don’t you guys in the US just come out and admit you don’t want Mexicans and Ethnic people moving there? > > . Because racism isn’t always the reason that people object to illegal immigration, or even too much legal immigration. Without objecting to immigration per se, we should address the question of why immigrant labor is so necessary now, when it didn’t use to be. How did those jobs ever get done before? You don’t have to be racist to be troubled by the long term economic implications of dependence on a steady influx of cheap labor. There are environmental issues as well. LIke much of your country, the American West, where the vast majority of illegal immigrants still settle, is dry. We’re not like Ireland or Holland, where the landscape is a gorgeous carpet of green fields punctuated by sparkling rivers and lakes. There’s only so much water, and we have to dig for it in many cases. Water tables are dropping with just the people we have now. MOre people in Western cities means more traffic and more pollution, too. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/52 "2007-01-10T21:05:16Z")
SOP raises a very good point. The thing i notice is; as our welfare roles swell (and law firms advertise their services for people to obtain disability pensions), I am noticing that large segements of the adult male population in the USA, DO NOT WORK! its unbelievable-you have 30-year old men on SSDI-sitting around and doing nothing.Meanwhile, all of the lawn car companies, paving companies, landscape/maintainence companies employ large numbers of illegal aliens. Also, as we have abandoned manufacturing (everything is made in china), blue-collar jobs are disappearing. I think we now have a dual economy-a small number of well-paid professionals, and large numbers of low-paying service jobs (which are attracting a lot of immigrants). not good trends. :o ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/53 "2007-01-10T21:24:32Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] . LIke much of your country, the American West is dry. [/QUOTE] Forgive me, I was assuming you are from Australia, but after thinking about it I couldn’t remember if you’re from there or New Zealand, in which case the comparison to your country would be less apt. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/54 "2007-01-10T22:47:34Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] It took me awhile to get the gist of this sentence, but I think you are saying that Canadian immigration policy restrict entrants to professionals, thereby not taking away jobs in low skill areas. [/quote] You need qualifications and the ability to speak English. > [@](#): > > That’s utterly preposterous. Have you taken a taxi recently? Visited a warehouse or a factory in the Toronto area? I know one business with about 120 employees on the factory floor working unskilled assembly work and virtually every single one of them is from China, Southeast Asia, or Eastern Europe - there were maybe four or five native-born Canadians there. You base your conclusions on ethnic morphology? How do you know that these Chinese, Southeast asian workers are not native born? How do you know these taxi drivers are not native born or do not have qualifications for more desirable work? > [@](#): > > I’ve worked with labour placement agencies throughout Canada and they’re swamped with immigrants seeking any work they can get. Well I can’t claim the broad anecdotal experience you have but if you work for EI, let me tell you your organization has failed me at least a dozen times. But it concerns me that we don’t have enough work for these immigrants who’ll take anything they can get. And you want more immigrants? How does that help your clients? Hey, look, if you can get me one of these Mexicans to cut my grass, look after my pool and relieve my wife of housekeeping duties for lets say 5 bucks an hour, under the table you understand, I’ll slip you a couple of hundred. > [@](#): > > The percentage of immigrants to Canada who take professional jobs is a small one. Indeed, about half of immigrants aren’t even on skilled worker visas; half are family visas, refugees, or nannies. And many of those who get in on skilled worker visas are doing low skill jobs. I’m not familiar with the numbers, so I won’t disagree. You still need qualifications as you’ve outlined above, and just living in poverty in your native country won’t get you in legally. And I’m glad we don’t have an undocumented worker problem in this country > [@](#): > > Personally, I’m just tickled pink with it. Obviously, if they could find the work, it was wise of the government to let them in, as they filled a labor need. I’m all for more immigrants. The most valuable resource in the world is a human being. If the U.S. doesn’t want so many Mexicans, I say offer them a free bus ticket to come here. There’s plenty to do and lots of room. Bienvenidos a Canada! Your fine Jack. Your either in the middle class or work for the government.Perhaps you feel good about your concern for the little guy in Mexico. My sympathies lie with the hordes of workers trying to make ends meet in this country. You might look down on a Canadian for refusing to take a job that won’t allow him the dignity to support his/her family or hold out for that opportunity. Sure, you might feel some sympathy and support a welfare system. As far as I’m concerned, any society that isn’t concerned about the welfare and dignity of its own citizens earns my disrespect. I don’t see a hugh problem in Canada. We don’t have any illegal immigration worth talking about. When I hear about people supporting it in the States, I can only shake my head. How come our overall economy is doing fine in Canada ? We have universal health care and no illegal immigration. We’ve essentially decriminalized marijuana … ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/55 "2007-01-10T22:49:36Z")
…and legalized gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/56 "2007-01-11T00:10:26Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] Forgive me, I was assuming you are from Australia, but after thinking about it I couldn’t remember if you’re from there or New Zealand, in which case the comparison to your country would be less apt. [/QUOTE] I was born in New Zealand and lived there until I was 18. I live in Australia now, but wouldn’t be adverse to shifting. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526/57 "2007-01-11T01:38:07Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] Immigration would not just be from Mexico and Eastern Europe - you would see hordes streaming in from Africa. [/QUOTE] And China, South East Asia, South Asia and the Middle East. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-u-s-opened-its-borders/384526.md?page=2)