# What would happen if the US started withdrawing support from Israel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134 "2010-03-28T19:37:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/21 "2010-03-29T20:28:55Z")
Carter is a Southern Baptist from Georgia. Need I say more. I was discussing Carter with a ladyfriend, with whom I run, who is also a Southern Baptist, and I mentioned his referring to Israel as an apartheid state, his conduct towards Israel when he was President, and his current remarks. She told me that Southern Baptists are, in general, antisemites. Here’s a new column from the Jerusalem World Review: [http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0310/tobin032910.php3](http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0310/tobin032910.php3) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/22 "2010-03-29T20:35:29Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Carter is a Southern Baptist from Georgia. Need I say more. Yes. Yes, you do. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/23 "2010-03-29T20:55:57Z")
Two more commentaries: > **[Will Obama ignite 3rd intifada?](https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Will-Obama-ignite-3rd-intifada)** > > US president gives those seeking another round of violence a powerful excuse. [http://weeklystandard.com/articles/future-illusion](http://weeklystandard.com/articles/future-illusion) ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/24 "2010-03-29T21:00:36Z")
> [@NOLA\_Cajun](#): > > Personally I stand on the side of Israel and think they should take all of the land back and to hell with those terrorists. They are the ones that are not interested in peace. They have been catered to and offered almost everything they want and still there is no peace. . You said it so well and i agree totally. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/25 "2010-03-29T21:34:20Z")
> [@astro](#): > > The Israeli’s (at least those currently in power) have shown they really don’t care much for the US notion of how to achieve peace in the region. The Israeli government’s attitude toward the Obama administration’s attempts to broker peace borders on sheer contempt. > > At this point, in a realpolitik sense, what does the Obama administration really have to lose by beginning to distance itself from Israel and Israeli policies that don’t align with US interests? It is a matter of balancing the vast, lasting and measurable benefits of dissociating against the destructive potential of the various Israel lobbies. A proper repudiation of Israel will probably take time and coalition building within the US before it can advance. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/26 "2010-03-29T22:01:30Z")
> [@NOLA\_Cajun](#): > > Personally I stand on the side of Israel and think they should take all of the land back and to hell with those terrorists. But they’re terrorists _because_ they’ve been told to go to hell. Trouble is, they try to take as many people as possible with them when they go. > [@](#): > > They have been catered to and offered almost everything they want and still there is no peace. Here’s what the non-extremist Palestinians and most Arabs want: 1. The removal of ALL Jewish settlements from the West Bank. 2. The return of East Jerusalem for use as their capital. 3. The “right of return” for Palestinians and their descendents to live in Israel proper. I wouldn’t give them 100% of their demands either, but I fail to see how “No, no and no” amount to being offered “almost everything”. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/27 "2010-03-29T22:47:07Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > But they’re terrorists _because_ they’ve been told to go to hell. Trouble is, they try to take as many people as possible with them when they go. > > Here’s what the non-extremist Palestinians and most Arabs want: > > 1. The removal of ALL Jewish settlements from the West Bank. > 2. The return of East Jerusalem for use as their capital. > 3. The “right of return” for Palestinians and their descendents to live in Israel proper. > > I wouldn’t give them 100% of their demands either, but I fail to see how “No, no and no” amount to being offered “almost everything”. Here is what the Palestinians [turned down](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_2000_Summit#cite_note-6) in 2000: 1. An eventual 91% of the West Bank, and all of the Gaza Strip. 2. Palestinian control over Eastern Jerusalem as the capital of the new Palestinian state, with custodianship of over the Temple Mount. 3. All refugees could apply for compensation of property from an international fund to which Israel would contribute along with other countries. I don’t see that as no, no, and no. Considering that throughout history demands from the losing side of a war have been greeted with a giant “lick my balls,” I see this as a very generous offer. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/28 "2010-03-29T23:38:23Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Your opening paragraph is false. > > Undoubtedly, the announcement during US VP Biden’s visit of plans to build 1600 homes in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Ramat Shlomo was poorly timed and embarrassing for Biden and the Israeli government. But were it not for the timing, would Ramat Shlomo have made international headlines and threatened to derail prospects for peace negotiations? Probably not. > > Forgotten or ignored by the very same media that reported it at the time is the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu’s ten month building moratorium in the West Bank specifically excluded Jerusalem. This was accepted by the US and to a lesser extent an unhappy Palestinian side. At no time did the Israeli government agree to modify its policy on Jerusalem and the decision on Ramat Shlomo was in keeping with this stance. In addition, some media wrongly and misleadingly started to scream about “new settlements” appearing in eastern Jerusalem. In fact, Ramat Shlomo, founded in 1995 and populated primarily by ultra-Orthodox residents, is located in north Jerusalem adjacent to other Jewish neighborhoods such as Ramot and Har Hotzvim. It is within Jerusalem’s municipal boundaries despite its location just beyond the 1967 Green Line. There is an overwhelming Israeli consensus that neighborhoods such as Ramat Shlomo are an integral part of Israel and it was widely accepted by all sides that they would remain so even in the event that Jerusalem was ever subject to any territorial changes. While the Ramat Shlomo announcement was deemed to be “provocative” and damaging to peace, the Palestinian Authority sought to avoid an embarrassing situation for itself, and, judging by the lack of coverage, succeeded. > > Postponed until after Biden left the region, a public square was dedicated in honor of Palestinian terrorist Dalal Mughrabi, a Fatah woman who led a 1978 terror attack, the worst in Israel’s history, in which 37 Israeli civilians and an American photographer were killed, and 71 were wounded. > > Obama, in the peace process is bypassing the PLO to engage in direction talk with Israel. The PLO and Israel must sit down together to discuss these things and not Obama dictate to Israel what she has to do. I think it is the Obama administration is treating Israel with sheer contempt, and not vice versa. Ramat Shlomo was part of a Palestinian village until the 1970s. Israel’s ownership of it is not widely accepted by all sides. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/29 "2010-03-29T23:49:18Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Here is what the Palestinians [turned down](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_2000_Summit#cite_note-6) in 2000: > > 1. An eventual 91% of the West Bank, and all of the Gaza Strip. > 2. Palestinian control over Eastern Jerusalem as the capital of the new Palestinian state, with custodianship of over the Temple Mount. > 3. All refugees could apply for compensation of property from an international fund to which Israel would contribute along with other countries. > > I don’t see that as no, no, and no. Considering that throughout history demands from the losing side of a war have been greeted with a giant “lick my balls,” I see this as a very generous offer. From somebody who was there : On the eve of Camp David, Israeli negotiators described their purported red lines to their American counterparts: the annexation of more than 10 percent of the West Bank, sovereignty over parts of the strip along the Jordan River, and rejection of any territorial swaps. At the opening of Camp David, Barak warned the Americans that he could not accept Palestinian sovereignty over any part of East Jerusalem other than a purely symbolic “foothold.” Earlier, he had claimed that if Arafat asked for 95 percent of the West Bank, there would be no deal… The final and largely unnoticed consequence of Barak’s approach is that, strictly speaking, there never was an Israeli offer. Determined to preserve Israel’s position in the event of failure, and resolved not to let the Palestinians take advantage of one-sided compromises, the Israelis always stopped one, if not several, steps short of a proposal. The ideas put forward at Camp David were never stated in writing, but orally conveyed. They generally were presented as US concepts, not Israeli ones; indeed, despite having demanded the opportunity to negotiate face to face with Arafat, Barak refused to hold any substantive meeting with him at Camp David out of fear that the Palestinian leader would seek to put Israeli concessions on the record. Nor were the proposals detailed. If written down, the American ideas at Camp David would have covered no more than a few pages. Barak and the Americans insisted that Arafat accept them as general “bases for negotiations” before launching into more rigorous negotiations. > **[Camp David: The Tragedy of Errors | Robert Malley, Hussein Agha](https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2001/08/09/camp-david-the-tragedy-of-errors/)** > > Mr. Malley, as Special Assistant to President Clinton for Arab-Israeli Affairs, was a member of the US peace team and participated in the Camp David And the reason Barak couldn’t make an actual firm offer was that he was facing an election at home and if any offer had become public his own electoral coalition would have fallen apart, never mind the fact that his opponents (who were dead against any deal) would have gained massive support and swamped him at the poll (which is what happened anyway with even the suggestion of a peace agreement.) ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/30 "2010-03-30T00:32:25Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The number of pro-Israel Jews and Christians in the US is enough to make it politically risky to simply repudiate Israel. Also, war in the region threatens the all-important flow of oil. Telling one party in a dispute to go to Hell when any possible solution has to take their interests into account isn’t useful. > > Also, it isn’t as if Israel is completely dependent on the US. US support is crucial but the US is far from able to dictate Israeli policy. Yes, Obama would run the risk of what happened to George HW Bush. > [@](#): > > “Many believe that George H.W. Bush’s defeat in 1992 was the result of Jewish-American opposition fueled by his hard line against Israeli settlements under the Shamir government.” > > Desch’s evidence includes informal comments to students by the former President himself, in a visit to the Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M in February 2005, a visit at which Old Man Bush decried the power of AIPAC (the preeminent pro-Israel lobby). > > Neither of these reports is completely convincing to me. Yes, the Jewish vote turned against Bush. He had won 27 percent of it in '88, only 15 percent in '92. And the turn may well have cost him New Jersey and Ohio, states he had won by big margins four years earlier (and lost narrowly to Clinton). But Clinton won the presidency in '92 by a resounding electoral margin, 370 to 168, and Bush’s gaining N.J. and Ohio wouldn’t have changed the outcome. > > Maybe there’s a more extended analysis of how AIPAC and pro-Israel money changed the '92 race, but I haven’t seen it… > > But let’s focus on what matters here. A former President believes that the pro-Israel lobby cost him his job. His son runs for President and is far more responsive than his father was to the Israel lobby. Right there you have a good indication of the power of the lobby. Of course we don’t know what W.'s political calculations were on this issue. But everyone else has a theory about the effect of Papa Bush on W.; this is now mine. W. is a superb politician. He learned political lessons from his dad. > **[31 Best Mother’s Day Gift Ideas That Mom Will Absolutely Love](https://observer.com/2021/03/best-mothers-day-gifts/)** > > We’ve created the ultimate guide for the best Mother’s Day gifts. This comprehensive list comes with a wide variety of gift ideas to suit all types of moms. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/31 "2010-03-30T05:12:17Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Carter is a Southern Baptist from Georgia. Need I say more. I was discussing Carter with a ladyfriend, with whom I run, who is also a Southern Baptist, and I mentioned his referring to Israel as an apartheid state, his conduct towards Israel when he was President, and his current remarks. She told me that Southern Baptists are, in general, antisemites. Damn Carter, I hate it when people show prejudice towards people from a particular religion. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/32 "2010-03-30T14:47:33Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Carter is a Southern Baptist from Georgia. Need I say more. Yeah, all those Georgia Baptists are such bigots. Good thing you and I don’t have any prejudices. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/33 "2010-03-30T14:55:39Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > I was discussing Carter with a ladyfriend, with whom I run, who is also a Southern Baptist… Oh, and you even have a Baptist friend! Oh how nice! ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/34 "2010-03-30T15:01:51Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > This is nonsense. First of all Israel isn’t surrounded by Islamist states. Sorry when did I say that Israel was surrounded by Islamist states ? Don’t make things up and then imply that I said them please. > [@](#): > > Secondly it doesn’t remotely have the capacity to destroy them through conventional means. Your knowledge of modern M.Eastern history seems to be very limited to say the least so I’ll content myself by mentioning the Six Day War and the Yom Kippur War. In 1967 Egypt, Syria and Jordan, together with troops and other assistance from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia and Sudan were totally defeated by the I.D.F. in spite of the huge numbers of forces that the arab nations put both in the air and on the ground. When Egypt, Syria and Iraq(as well at least some Moroccan soldiers who were captured by the Israelis) attacked on what is the Jews holiest day of the year( and when Israel was in virtual shutdown ),Yom Kippur,the I.D.F. still inflicted a massive defeat on their attackers. Political restraint was the only thing that stopped them putting their enemies out of business once and for all. As I said in the post you replied to,as long as the U.S. is a friend and ally of Israel then it has influence over them. Remove the alliance and you remove Israels restraint. Since those times the I.D.F. is even more efficient and better armed, not less so. > [@](#): > > Its capacity for long-term offensive attack is limited and it could barely handle Southern Lebanon let alone the rest of the Middle East. The I.D.F. was seriously constricted by Hezboullahs tactics of using,human shields for attacks on the Israelis and constructing apartment blocks over weapons bunkers,not by the magnificance and courage of Hezs fighting which were most obvious by their absence. Remove the constraints… > [@](#): > > It could of course nuke its neighbors but that would be one of the most profoundly radicalizing events in all of world history.It would immediately transform the Middle East and radical Islamists would take over one country after another including Pakistan. It would be only be a matter of time before they retaliated in kind and destroyed Israel completely. > > As for the OP, the US would definitely benefit by distancing itself from Israel but it’s not a realistic political possibility. The Israel lobby has a strong grip on the US Congress and Israel has near unwavering support from the conservative movement as well. But assuming a hypothetical scenario I don’t think it would change that much in the Middle East in the short run. Israel has a strong enough military to defend itself without US assistance. However it would risk becoming severely isolated if it continued its current policies without US support. My guess is Israel would be quite pragmatic and move closer to the Europeans and Arab regimes like Egypt and Jordan. The price would be to stop settlements and move seriously towards a two-state solution. I.M.O. the Israelis would only nuke their enemies if their enemies threats of driving them into the sea looked like becoming a reality. In which case they’d probably try to make sure that there would be very little left for their enemies to rally around. It might of course inflame the ordinary Muslim in the street or it might give them pause for thought about where Pan Arabism and Islamic Fundamentalism were taking them. In case you weren’t aware of it the I.F.s are already trying to take over the Muslim world and have often expressed the desire to enforce Islam and Sharia law on those parts of the world that doesn’t suscribe to their religion. The schism between the Sunnis and the Shias is probably one of the main reasons at present why this goal is severly hampered. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/35 "2010-03-30T15:04:29Z")
For the record, some of the most ardent supporters of Israel I know are Southern Baptists. Ardent to the point of being _blind_ supporters of Israel. You know, “God’s chosen people” and all that. [Here is a collection of Biblical passages underlying such thinking.](http://www.oliveroot.net/support_israel.html) Carter, in voicing criticism of Israel, is actually going against the flow of those who share his faith. ---
**Author:** ![blinkthrice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@blinkthrice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkthrice)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/36 "2010-03-30T15:09:32Z")
How much foreign aid was Israel receiving during the war of 67? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/37 "2010-03-30T16:58:01Z")
The 67 and 73 wars were brief defensive wars which is mainly what the IDF has been organized to fight. Israel does not have the military or economic capacity to fight major offensive wars against serious opposition. As its experience in Lebanon has shown it has a very limited ability to occupy even small amounts of hostile territory. The bottom line is that Israel cannot destroy any Islamist country unless it uses nukes which would sooner or later lead to retaliation in kind and its own destruction. As for accusing Jimmy Carter of being an anti-Semite it’s truly beneath contempt. As president he did more to establish Israel’s long-run security than any President since. Since leaving office he has become one of the world’s great humanitarians. If Carter is an anti-Semite, I would be proud to call myself one too. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/38 "2010-03-30T17:27:22Z")
> [@NOLA\_Cajun](#): > > What do you suppose the US government would do if Native Americans started to do the things that the palestinians do? Native Americans are full American citizens with all rights and duties of any citizen with the addition that they get to live on the reservation if they want to. The blood libel you suggest against Native Americans is disgusting. There is nothing morally equivalent comparing the full rights of Native Americans with the oppression of Palestinians by the US and Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/39 "2010-03-30T17:40:30Z")
I am constantly amazed by how otherwise rational intelligent people can become retartded when it comes to defending Israel’s behaviour. Carter, the only President who actually brought any peace to the middle east is now an anti-semite. /boggle ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134/40 "2010-03-30T20:09:54Z")
I happened to drive past a Baptist church on Highway 151 in rural north Georgia today. Out front, flapping in the wind: the flag of Israel. “Need I say more?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-the-us-started-withdrawing-support-from-israel/534134.md?page=3)