# What would happen if we broke the land link between the Americas?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [July 27, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468 "2011-07-27T06:22:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Darth\_Ayebaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Ayebaw)
#### Post date: [July 27, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/21 "2011-07-27T16:08:57Z")
Thanks for all the input everyone.
> [@DrFidelius](#):
>
> Tha Med is drying up because we took all the debris from the isthmus of Panama and filled in the Straits of Gibralter with it. It’s in the OP.
On another note, would this actually work? Assuming cost is no issue, is there actually enough material in Panama to do it?
Also I still haven’t seen a figure for how long it would take the Med to dry. It’s dried and refilled at least several times in the past, I assume that would give some indication.
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### Author:  [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)
#### Post date: [July 27, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/22 "2011-07-27T16:33:39Z")
> [@Colibri](#):
>
> (However, this idea is not universally accepted. I saw a seminar just last week in which a researcher proposed that the Ice Ages were actually triggered when New Guinea and Australia drifted north far enought to restrict oceanic circulation through Indonesia, changing sea-surface conditions across the Pacific.)
So the Aussies are to blame, eh? They’re not going to like that, mate.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [July 27, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/23 "2011-07-27T21:18:03Z")
> [@clairobscur](#):
>
> I’m not sure the Mediterranean Sea would dry. There are numerous large rivers bringing in water (including the Nile). Even if the inflow isn’t sufficient to keep the water level stable (or even raise, I don’t know if currently the Mediterranean flows out in the Atlantic or the other way around), it wouldn’t dry completely in any case.
Yeah, it would, because it [already happened only 6 million years ago](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messinian_salinity_crisis):
> [@](#):
>
> Sediment samples from below the deep seafloor of the Mediterranean Sea, which include [evaporite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporite) minerals, soils, and [fossil](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil) plants, show that about 5.96 million years ago in the late [Miocene](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miocene) period the precursor of the [Strait of Gibraltar](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Gibraltar) closed tight, and the Mediterranean Sea, for the first time and then repeatedly, partially desiccated. 5.6 Ma ago the strait closed one last, final time, and because of the generally dry climate conditions, within a millennium the Mediterranean basin nearly completely desiccated, evaporating into a deep dry basin bottoming at some places 3 to 5 km below the world ocean level, with a few hypersaline [Dead-Sea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea)-like pockets. Around 5.5 Ma less dry climatic conditions allowed the basin to resume receiving more fresh water from rivers, with pockets of [Caspian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_Sea)-like brackish waters getting progressively less hyper-saline, until the final reopening of the Strait of Gibraltar 5.33 Ma with the Zanclean flooding.[[5]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messinian_salinity_crisis#cite_note-Clauzon1996-4)
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [July 27, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/24 "2011-07-27T21:27:59Z")
> [@Darth\_Ayebaw](#):
>
> On another note, would this actually work? Assuming cost is no issue, is there actually enough material in Panama to do it?.
Easily, especially if all you want to do is build a dike across it. The Strait of Gibraltar is less than 10 miles across, while Panama is 50 miles across at its narrowest point. The shallowest point is only about 1000 ft deep, while the highest peak in Panama is over 11,000 feet. So there’s enough material in Panama to fill up the Strait of Gibraltar many times over, even when you just consider the part of Panama above sea level.
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### Author:  [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/25 "2011-07-28T00:10:38Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#):
>
> Yeah, it would, because it [already happened only 6 million years ago](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messinian_salinity_crisis):
Harry Turtledove wrote a story (“Down in the Bottomlands”) in which the Mediterranean remained dry to the present-day (existing as a huge “Death Valley”-like area with a few very salty seas, and unique lifeforms).
Julian May has a novel in which the opening of the straits is an important plot point.
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### Author:  [@Darth\_Ayebaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Ayebaw)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/26 "2011-07-28T00:15:30Z")
I myself only brought it up and knew of it because it’s also featured in Stephen Baxter’s novel Evolution.
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### Author:  [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/27 "2011-07-28T04:51:10Z")
> [@Colophon](#):
>
> A man, a plan, a con. TNT! No canal! Panama ☹
😃 Excellent.
BTW, what does “golf clap” mean? I’ve seen lt all over this board…I wanna be part of the in crowd too, y’know.
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/28 "2011-07-28T05:07:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> I once read a SF story that used this idea (except they had an earthquake destroying Central America instead of nuclear explosions). In the story, the gap diverted the Gulf Stream. The absence of that warm water caused temperatures in Western Europe to significantly drop.
I read that… has to have been 1984 or earlier as I remember where I was living at the time. That was “seriously drop” as in “Britain becomes marginally habitable, to the extent of begging the USA to take in millions of refugees”. Then the States sorted it out with a big-ass dam to fill in the gap and restore the Gulf Stream, but kept a fleet of bombers on standby in case the dam should need blowing up again - so those pesky Euros would know to play nice, you hear me? I forget who wrote it.
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2011, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/29 "2011-07-28T11:43:47Z")
> [@Colophon](#):
>
> A man, a plan, a con. TNT! No canal! Panama ☹
If Nukes, then: “A man, a plan, no TNT, and no Panama, either!”
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### Author:  [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2011, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/30 "2011-07-28T12:08:12Z")
> [@Malacandra](#):
>
> I read that… has to have been 1984 or earlier as I remember where I was living at the time. That was “seriously drop” as in “Britain becomes marginally habitable, to the extent of begging the USA to take in millions of refugees”. Then the States sorted it out with a big-ass dam to fill in the gap and restore the Gulf Stream, but kept a fleet of bombers on standby in case the dam should need blowing up again - so those pesky Euros would know to play nice, you hear me? I forget who wrote it.
Even if there was no Gulf Stream, why would Britain become “marginally habitable”? Canadians seem to manage OK with a city of a million-plus (Edmonton) at a similar latitude to northern England. And even without the Gulf Stream, the Atlantic would modify the climate to some extent so it should be less harsh than the continental extremes.
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### Author:  [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2011, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/31 "2011-07-28T12:16:04Z")
> [@Malacandra](#):
>
> I read that… has to have been 1984 or earlier as I remember where I was living at the time. That was “seriously drop” as in “Britain becomes marginally habitable, to the extent of begging the USA to take in millions of refugees”.
Hasn’t Britain _already_ sent “millions of refugees” to North America? And I’ve heard plenty of complaints about the habitability of the English climate. 😉
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### Author:  [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/32 "2011-07-28T13:30:17Z")
> [@Sailboat](#):
>
> And I’ve heard plenty of complaints about the habitability of the English climate. 😉
Allow me to direct you to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=617782). Thankfully, the scary realm below 0ºF remains unknown to most Brits. It may not always be pleasant, but at least we rarely risk death by flash-freezing if the door locks behind us. 🙂
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/33 "2011-07-28T13:38:07Z")
> [@Malacandra](#):
>
> I read that… has to have been 1984 or earlier as I remember where I was living at the time. That was “seriously drop” as in “Britain becomes marginally habitable, to the extent of begging the USA to take in millions of refugees”. Then the States sorted it out with a big-ass dam to fill in the gap and restore the Gulf Stream, but kept a fleet of bombers on standby in case the dam should need blowing up again - so those pesky Euros would know to play nice, you hear me? I forget who wrote it.
_Much_ earlier. IIRC, it was from the 1940s (It mentioned the “Ring of Fire”, but was unaware of Continental Drift). Can’t recall who wrote it, though.
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### Author:  [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)
#### Post date: [July 28, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/34 "2011-07-28T21:09:31Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#):
>
> BTW, what does “golf clap” mean? I’ve seen lt all over this board…I wanna be part of the in crowd too, y’know.
[Common internet meme.](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=golf+clap&l=1)
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### Author:  [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/35 "2011-07-29T15:48:58Z")
Didn’t “golf clap” start in TV, though? I seem to remember it figuring in a SNL sketch or something. It’s referring to the restrained, polite applause you usually see employed after a particularly nice drive or put while watching a live golf game. Polite and restrained, you see, to avoid distracting the golfers on other holes. It’s evolved into a meme as a way of giving rather snooty props to someone for something clever.
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### Author:  [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/36 "2011-07-29T15:50:34Z")
Holy cats! No idea it came from the Emilio Estevez/Charlie Sheen movie Men at Work though. Huh.
Underrated little movie, that was.
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### Author:  [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/37 "2011-07-29T15:59:04Z")
Mad props to **Colophon**.
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### Author:  [@Smurfie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smurfie)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/38 "2011-07-29T17:22:50Z")
> [@Colibri](#):
>
> This is a pretty well known theory, and is widely accepted. At one time there was a wide water gap between North and South America, with full circulation of water between the Atlantic and Pacific. The continents gradually began drifting closer to one another, starting about 20 million years ago. The final closure of the Isthmus of Panama was about 3-4 million years ago. Once the flow of water between the oceans ceased, the Gulf Stream strengthened and the current pattern of [thermohaline circulation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermohaline_circulation), or oceanic conveyor belt. This is believed to have helped trigger glaciation cycles in the northern hemisphere. Removal of the Central American isthmus would unquestionably have very significant effects on global climate.
>
> (However, this idea is not universally accepted. I saw a seminar just last week in which a researcher proposed that the Ice Ages were actually triggered when New Guinea and Australia drifted north far enought to restrict oceanic circulation through Indonesia, changing sea-surface conditions across the Pacific.)
Great. Now we have to sink Australia. Just to be sure.
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### Author:  [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/39 "2011-07-29T17:52:16Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#):
>
> Harry Turtledove wrote a story (“Down in the Bottomlands”) in which the Mediterranean remained dry to the present-day (existing as a huge “Death Valley”-like area with a few very salty seas, and unique lifeforms).
>
> Julian May has a novel in which the opening of the straits is an important plot point.
I seem to remember a short sf story of a civilization in the Mediterranean basin destroyed during the zanclean flood with refugees escaping by boat.
The story strongly hints at being the basis for the ancient myths of Atlantis and Noah’s Ark.
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### Author:  [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)
#### Post date: [July 29, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-broke-the-land-link-between-the-americas/590468/40 "2011-07-29T18:39:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> I once read a SF story that used this idea (except they had an earthquake destroying Central America instead of nuclear explosions). In the story, the gap diverted the Gulf Stream. The absence of that warm water caused temperatures in Western Europe to significantly drop.
> [@Malacandra](#):
>
> I read that… has to have been 1984 or earlier as I remember where I was living at the time. That was “seriously drop” as in “Britain becomes marginally habitable, to the extent of begging the USA to take in millions of refugees”. Then the States sorted it out with a big-ass dam to fill in the gap and restore the Gulf Stream, but kept a fleet of bombers on standby in case the dam should need blowing up again - so those pesky Euros would know to play nice, you hear me? I forget who wrote it.
I came into this thread to mention / attempt to recall the same story. I’m all but certain that it was either in _Asimov’s_ or _Analog_. I seem to recall that the big-ass dam was called the “Welling Wall.” Off to see if Google can figure out what I’m thinking of…
Nope, nothing.
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