# What would happen if we pull out of Iraq tomorrow **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 20, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974 "2005-11-20T20:09:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/41 "2005-11-21T21:55:11Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > IIRC he really did, sealed by UN inspectors. I’ve heard people use that to point out why the “Nigerian yellowcake” forgery was so silly; why smuggle what you already have ? I meant not the uranium specifically, but the by this point psychotically-disconnected-from-reality idea that Hussein had WMDs. But apparently **kanicbird** not only holds to that but is willing to cling to any rationalization to support it – see post #37. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/42 "2005-11-21T21:56:44Z")
Besides which, having however much uranium means right next to nothing, its like suggesting you are well along to creating a hydrogen bomb because you have lots of access to water. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/43 "2005-11-21T22:26:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Besides which, having however much uranium means right next to nothing… Saddam _could_ have planned to use the stuff in flooding the US market with cheap [Fiestaware](http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/rglass.html) knockoffs. The scary thing is, **no one** could have predicted such a diabolical attack! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/44 "2005-11-21T22:28:21Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Then, raise taxes and hand out some money to these ill, starving, freezing, senior citizens you feel so sorry about. See…you don’t have to have people get killed in the process. But maybe you feel that lower taxes for healthy, well nourished younger citizens is also worth the cost? > > That’s indeed a despicable argument in support of this war. What tax increase? $200 billion would pay for a lot of oil for the poor. Not that the Bushites would ever do anything so charitable, of course. Iraq will become stable, eventually, either as a Shiite theological state allied with Iran, or paritioned into three states. The only question is how long it will take, and how many of our (and Danish and British) troops will die before it happens. Maybe we could do something if there had been an adequate number of troops at the beginning, but now it is too late. Maybe if Bush admits he screwed up and gets a force of Islamic troops in to be peacekeepers. But since he is just “staying the course” and refuses to admit any mistakes, there is no hope. If you want to find the benefit of pulling out, **kanicbird** might just want to talk to the spouses and parents of the soldiers who will be alive next year if we pulled out. I certainly wouldn’t want to die for a lie. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/45 "2005-11-21T22:29:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Besides which, having however much uranium means right next to nothing, its like suggesting you are well along to creating a hydrogen bomb because you have lots of access to water. Yikes, that stretch is so extreme it hurts. Surely you’re not saying that you think uranium has as many uses as water? I’m disappointed **Lucy**. Even when we disagree I can usually depend on you to make your point well. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/46 "2005-11-21T22:35:58Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yikes, that stretch is so extreme it hurts. Surely you’re not saying that you think uranium has as many uses as water? I’m disappointed **Lucy**. Even when we disagree I can usually depend on you to make your point well. Don’t be silly; he/she was making the point that a pile of uranium isn’t a bomb. it’s not even close. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/47 "2005-11-21T22:40:07Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > He didn’t have many of them and is going up against a force which could launch unrestricted conventional, chemical, biological and radiological warfare agaist your country. You know that chances are that the US won’t use NBC’s if you don’t, it is to your advantage to not use them, and also becasue you are not suppose to have them and can’t defend yourself conventionally either, it is to your advantage to get rid of them ASAP by destroying them, burying them in the backyard, shipping them out of the country. Utter nonsense. How was this to Saddam Hussein’s advantage? Did refraining from using these hypothetical weapons make him less captured? His sons less dead? Where’s the upside? I also question your contention that U.S. forces would have retaliated in kind. Even back in 2003 when many people were predicting that Saddam Hussein would use chemical weapons during the war, I don’t recall anyone suggesting that the United States would (or should) reciprocate. Plus … if fear of U.S. reprisal in kind was sufficient to prevent Saddam Hussein from using these weapons, then why go to war at all? The scenario you’ve just outlined actually undermines the case for war even further. Not only did Saddam Hussein not have WMDs, but even if he had had WMDs he would have been too afraid of American retaliation to use them! Do you even recognize the logical inconsistencies contained within your position? Come now. It’s impossible to have a serious discussion about what to do in Iraq RIGHT NOW unless we can look clear-eyed at the mistakes that brought us to this pass. There were no WMDs. There was no connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Admit that Bush was wrong (or lying) and MOVE ON. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/48 "2005-11-21T22:46:05Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Funny you should select singular, because that is the reason. He didn’t have many of them and is going up against a force which could launch unrestricted conventional, chemical, biological and radiological warfare agaist your country. You know that chances are that the US won’t use NBC’s if you don’t, it is to your advantage to not use them, and also becasue you are not suppose to have them and can’t defend yourself conventionally either, it is to your advantage to get rid of them ASAP by destroying them, burying them in the backyard, shipping them out of the country. 100,000 litres of anthrax buried in the backyard? That can’t be good for the lawn :eek: ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/49 "2005-11-21T22:57:03Z")
> [@](#): > > For what purpose ? Even he had nothing more than one artillery shell of something nasty, why not use it while he can ? He’s going to be exiled/imprisoned/dead anyway. Perhaps you forgot about the 1st war in the Gulf, where our intention was to have him live. I’m sure S.H. was shitting a brick in his bunker during it, only after finding out that he was intentionally not targeted. If I can find his plumber I’ll see if I can get him to give you a cite. S.H. had reason to beleive he would survive the war based on past experence. S.H. knew he better be found with WMD. I don’t understand what is so hard to understand here. The mind boggles. > [@magellan01](#): > > Surely you’re not saying that you think uranium has as many uses as water? Unlike water, well at least at room temps, Uranium will hurt like a mofo if dropped on your foot. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I meant not the uranium specifically, but the by this point psychotically-disconnected-from-reality idea that Hussein had WMDs. BG, He had them, he used them on ‘his own’ people (yes I know, but he did use them on Iraqi’s). He used them several times, the first couple were not that effective (IIRC the 1st attack killed 7 Iraqi’s, far short of this weapons potential). You tell me did he use his last chemical weapon on his own people and just misplaced the recipie? Really yoru point makes no sense, he had more, just he didn’t find a opportunity to use them is the logical answer. > [@](#): > > What tax increase? $200 billion would pay for a lot of oil for the poor. Not that the Bushites would ever do anything so charitable, of course. … better not go here again, already too far off topic. > [@](#): > > Besides which, having however much uranium means right next to nothing, its like suggesting you are well along to creating a hydrogen bomb because you have lots of access to water. Didn’t we bomb the German water plants to delay their production of the bomb, which worked, as even today I don’t think they have one. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/50 "2005-11-21T22:59:27Z")
> [@](#): > > S.H. knew he better be found with WMD. Should be better not be found ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/51 "2005-11-21T23:09:57Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Don’t be silly; he/she was making the point that a pile of uranium isn’t a bomb. it’s not even close. Thanks for the tip. The point, genius, is that there is a difference between attempting to illustrate something by use of comparison and doing so deftly, which the poster in question has demonstrated, repeatedly, he is quite capable of doing. He certainly doesn’t need the likes of you coming to his defense. Especially on a point, I tend to think, he and I _may_ actually agree. And since you’ve demonstrated that the amount of intellectual honesty and honor one must possess in order to apologize when he wrongs another exceeds your means, may I politely make another suggestion. Ignore me. Ignore every single one of my posts. I’ve attempted to do that to you (on the there’s-room-for-everyone theory) and you simply comment on my posts to others. Have you no pride? Do you also go to parties to which you haven’t been invited—and obviously so? Or has that been your existence for so long that you’ve lost the ability to self-reflect and any measure of self-worth? You might find me similarly sad and pathetic. I hope you do, as it would increase the likelihood that you find my suggestion a welcome one. And therefore you will be more apt to comply. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/52 "2005-11-21T23:13:12Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Perhaps you forgot about the 1st war in the Gulf, where our intention was to have him live. I’m sure S.H. was shitting a brick in his bunker during it, only after finding out that he was intentionally not targeted. If I can find his plumber I’ll see if I can get him to give you a cite. Yeah, let’s think about that. Bush senior and Powell didn’t go further because - they’d not have international support - there was no exit strategy - (perhaps) they were worried about an insurgency. Bush junior and the neocons pooh-poohed all this, saying we didn’t need significant international support, that we’d be out in months, and we’d be met with flowers. Now who had a better grasp of reality? I’m not saying I loved Bush Senior, but he was at least well qualified and had a clue. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/53 "2005-11-21T23:28:17Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > …Didn’t we bomb the German water plants to delay their production of the bomb, which worked, as even today I don’t think they have one. I havent the foggiest notion as to what point you think you are making. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/54 "2005-11-21T23:30:19Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > S.H. had reason to beleive he would survive the war based on past experence. S.H. knew he better not be found with WMD. So you’re arguing that Saddam Hussein refrained from using his hypothetical WMDs so that we’d “go easy on him” when we caught him? Basically he was like a junkie flushing his stash as the cops broke down the door? This just doesn’t hold up. He certainly had no assurances he would survive the war. Many members of his inner circle, including his two sons, didn’t. And if he was caught and tried by the international community he was already guilty of having used chemical weapons years ago against the Iranians and the Kurds. So why worry about gassing the Americans? In for a penny, in for a pound. Iraq didn’t have any WMDs. Inspections worked. And this continual to refusal to face basic facts is a profound barrier to the discussion of an actual solution to our predicament. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/55 "2005-11-21T23:48:25Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Perhaps you forgot about the 1st war in the Gulf, where our intention was to have him live. I’m sure S.H. was shitting a brick in his bunker during it, only after finding out that he was intentionally not targeted. If I can find his plumber I’ll see if I can get him to give you a cite. > > S.H. had reason to beleive he would survive the war based on past experence. S.H. knew he better be found with WMD. > > I don’t understand what is so hard to understand here. The mind boggles. GW1 was a war to get him out of Kuwait, not a crusade by someone who ranted about “The Axis of Evil” and claimed Saddam tried to kill his daddy. There are few similarities. > [@kanicbird](#): > > BG, He had them, he used them on ‘his own’ people (yes I know, but he did use them on Iraqi’s). He used them several times, the first couple were not that effective (IIRC the 1st attack killed 7 Iraqi’s, far short of this weapons potential). You tell me did he use his last chemical weapon on his own people and just misplaced the recipie? Really yoru point makes no sense, he had more, just he didn’t find a opportunity to use them is the logical answer. “Had” is the operative term. Before the destruction of GW1, years of sanctions, UN inspections and years of decay; after all that, anything he had was destroyed or decayed to uselessness. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Ignore me. Ignore every single one of my posts. > > I’ve attempted to do that to you (on the there’s-room-for-everyone theory) and you simply comment on my posts to others. Have you no pride? Do you also go to parties to which you haven’t been invited—and obviously so? Or has that been your existence for so long that you’ve lost the ability to self-reflect and any measure of self-worth? If you don’t want to be debated, don’t post in a forum called “Great Debates”. Also : > [@kanicbird](#): > > And since you’ve demonstrated that the amount of intellectual honesty and honor one must possess in order to apologize when he wrongs another exceeds your means, may I politely make another suggestion. > \< snip \> > You might find me similarly sad and pathetic. No personal insults in GD, remember ? Besides being against the rules, it’s really annoying when I’m not allowed to respond in kind. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/56 "2005-11-21T23:59:24Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Besides being against the rules, it’s really annoying when I’m not allowed to respond in kind. Being intellectually honest and having honor enough to apologize when you wrongly attribute a thought to someone isn’t aginst the rules! Please, by all means, respond in kind. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/57 "2005-11-22T00:18:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I would have to think about physics, but science IS influnced by politics, issues like origins of life and human’s ability to change global climate come to mind, and basic assumptions usually fall on political lines. This doesn’t show that the science is influenced by politics but only that the Right wing is increasingly resistant to accepting science when it goes against their strong beliefs about the way the world is or ought to be. > [@](#): > > Pretty obvious, I am not conceding the point that S.H. had no WMD, I find it highly unlikely that he had none Case in point. And, there is now a massive conspiracy amongst everyone in the Iraq government who knew he had them not to let us know? At any rate, even if we concede this silly point to you and suppose that he did have WMD, do you feel safer now knowing that they are God-Knows-Where and could very easily find their way into terrorist hands perhaps for a price that maybe even you or I could afford to pay? Wow, this war has made me feel so much safer!!! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/58 "2005-11-22T00:25:15Z")
**Der Trihs** You have incorrectly attributed **magellan01** ’s quotes to me. > [@Der Trihs](#): > > “Had” is the operative term. Before the destruction of GW1, years of sanctions, UN inspections and years of decay; after all that, anything he had was destroyed or decayed to uselessness. Again I call assuming facts not in evidence. Why did B. Clinton warn us about S.H.'s WMD’s, Why did J. Kerry warn us about S.H.'s WMD, did they lie too? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/59 "2005-11-22T00:31:27Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > even if we concede this silly point to you and suppose that he did have WMD, do you feel safer now knowing that they are God-Knows-Where and could very easily find their way into terrorist hands perhaps for a price that maybe even you or I could afford to pay? Wow, this war has made me feel so much safer!!! No it doesn’t, it is very worrying, like I have stated, if a civil war breaks out someone WILL dig them up and use them and kill people. Looking back at this war things could have been done differently which should have resulted in a ‘better’ outcome, but that is with hindsight, so I can’t blame W for this any more then I can blame B. J. Clinton for the attacks on 9-11-01 ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974/60 "2005-11-22T02:25:01Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Looking back at this war things could have been done differently which should have resulted in a ‘better’ outcome, but that is with hindsight, so I can’t blame W for this any more then I can blame B. J. Clinton for the attacks on 9-11-01 **What are you talking about?** It doesn’t take hindsight to worry about what would happen to the (supposed) WMD when we invaded. **It should have been the freakin’ first thing on their minds.** Plenty of us were talking about this before the war. It was the obvious question given the fact that the CIA was saying that the WMD were unlikely to end up in the hands of terrorists as long as Saddam had control of them. It amazes me that you can come up with this “hindsight” bullshit! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-we-pull-out-of-iraq-tomorrow/331974.md?page=4)