# What would happen if you were raised without knowledge of the opposite sex? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 4, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-you-were-raised-without-knowledge-of-the-opposite-sex/714226 "2015-03-04T22:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-you-were-raised-without-knowledge-of-the-opposite-sex/714226/21 "2015-03-07T18:09:36Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > If I’m living in a world of women, what are their sex lives like? If they’re not lesbians, do they just masturbate? And if they do, what do they think of, if the only man they know about is me? Babies masturbate - it doesn’t have to be linked to sexy thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-you-were-raised-without-knowledge-of-the-opposite-sex/714226/22 "2015-03-07T18:33:52Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Babies masturbate - it doesn’t have to be linked to sexy thoughts. But women are no longer babies. At some point sexuality happens. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-you-were-raised-without-knowledge-of-the-opposite-sex/714226/23 "2015-03-07T18:50:00Z")
But masturbation still doesn’t need to be linked to sexy thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-you-were-raised-without-knowledge-of-the-opposite-sex/714226/24 "2015-03-07T18:54:29Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I wonder if there’s a difference between homosexuals who are homosexual because of the sort of social experiment described in this thread (that is, there aren’t any people of the opposite gender around) and the homosexuals of our society, in which there are plenty of people of the opposite gender around, but they aren’t interested in them. In other words, the former category, if homosexual, might arguably be classified as “homosexual by necessity.” What you’re describing is known as situational homosexuality/pseudo-homosexuality, and it’s been observed for hundreds if not thousands of years in single-sex environments like boarding schools and prisons. But people who have these experiences generally do not identify as homosexual. Historically most of them they wouldn’t even have had any concept of sexual orientation, and in the modern world they tend to consider themselves straight or maybe bisexual. Even outside single-sex environments, the number of people who’ve ever had a same-sex partner is much larger than the number of people who actually describe themselves as gay or bi. This [CDC report](http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf) on a 2006-2008 study of sexual behavior found that among Americans age 25-44, 6% of men and 12% of women had at some point had sex with a same-sex partner (see graph on page 9). However, the same study asked respondents to label their sexual orientation and only about 4% of women and 3% of men chose either gay or bisexual (see tables on pages 29-30). > [@](#): > > So, if that’s the case, then if such a man or woman was suddenly put into a society where there were plenty of the opposite gender around, might it be that their homosexuality would go away and they would quickly be attracted to the opposite gender? That they’d quickly go from being gay to straight? Again, you’re mixing up sexual _orientation_ and sexual _behavior_. An individual’s behavior might very well change if they went from a single-sex environment to a mixed-sex environment, but that doesn’t tell us much about their sexual orientation. We have plenty of examples of people who engage in sexual behavior that goes against their professed sexual orientation. I say “professed” not to suggest dishonesty, but because we have no objective way of measuring sexual orientation and can only go by what people say about themselves. There are people who say that their sexual orientation has changed over time, but someone who came from a single-sex world where they didn’t even know that heterosexuality existed isn’t going to be in a good position to tell us whether their sexual orientation has _changed_ or whether they were straight all along and just didn’t know it. > [@TruCelt](#): > > There have certainly been cases of orphans and foundlings who were brought up in Convents and Monasteries. I don’t think convents and monasteries were typically as isolated as you seem to be assuming. A child who grew up in a convent or monastery presumably would have encountered servants, visitors, tradespeople, other foundlings and children sent there to be educated, etc. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-you-were-raised-without-knowledge-of-the-opposite-sex/714226/25 "2015-03-07T19:22:35Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > . . . > > I don’t think convents and monasteries were typically as isolated as you seem to be assuming. A child who grew up in a convent or monastery presumably would have encountered servants, visitors, tradespeople, other foundlings and children sent there to be educated, etc. Well, I won’t argue what is typical, but such places certainly do exist, and the prohibitions are quite strict: > **[Mount Athos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos)** > > Mount Athos (/ˈæθɒs/; Greek: Ἄθως \[ˈa.θos\]) is a mountain on the Athos peninsula in northeastern Greece directly on the Aegean Sea. It is an important center of Eastern Orthodox monasticism. The mountain and most of the Athos peninsula are governed as an autonomous region in Greece by the monastic community of Mount Athos, which is ecclesiastically under the direct jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. The remainder of the peninsula forms part of the Aristotelis municipali... > [@](#): > > There is a prohibition on entry for women, called avaton (Άβατον) in Greek, to make living in celibacy easier for those who have chosen to do so.[22] Monks feel that the presence of women alters the social dynamics of the community and therefore slows their path towards spiritual enlightenment. The ban was officially proclaimed by the Byzantine emperor Constantine Monomachos, as a chrysobull, in 1046.[23] > > In the 14th century, Serbian Emperor Dušan the Mighty brought his wife, Helena of Bulgaria, to Mount Athos to protect her from the plague, but she did not touch the ground during her entire visit, as she was carried in the hand carriage all the time.[24] > > French writer Maryse Choisy entered Mount Athos in the 1920s disguised as a sailor, and later wrote about her escapade in Un mois chez les hommes (“A Month With Men”).[25] > > There was an incident in the 1930s regarding Aliki Diplarakou, the first Greek beauty pageant contestant to win the Miss Europe title, who shocked the world when she dressed up as a man and sneaked into Mount Athos. Her escapade was discussed in the 13 July 1953, Time magazine article entitled “The Climax of Sin”.[26] > > In 1953, Cora Miller, an American Fulbright Program teacher from Athens, Ohio, landed briefly along with two other women, stirring up a controversy among the local monks.[27] > > A 2003 resolution of the European Parliament requested lifting the ban for violating “the universally recognised principle of gender equality”.[28] > > On 26 May 2008, five Moldovans illegally entered Greece by way of Turkey, ending up on Athos; four of the migrants were women. The monks forgave them for trespassing and informed them that the area was forbidden to females.[29] ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-you-were-raised-without-knowledge-of-the-opposite-sex/714226/26 "2015-03-07T20:37:17Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Well, I won’t argue what is typical, but such places certainly do exist, and the prohibitions are quite strict: > > [Mount Athos - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos) Sure, such places do/have existed, but I think that such strict, isolated religious communities are both rare and unlikely to be given many children to raise. Until about the 19th century nearly all babies were breastfed by either their mothers or wetnurses, so before that I’m not sure an isolated bunch of monks would have even known what they could safely feed a baby if someone did happen to bring them one. I’m vague on this but I’ve heard that historically children often weren’t weaned until they were at least 2-3 years old, in which case a child old enough to be weaned would be old enough to have some awareness that women exist. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-you-were-raised-without-knowledge-of-the-opposite-sex/714226/27 "2015-03-07T23:14:04Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Sure, such places do/have existed, but I think that such strict, isolated religious communities are both rare and unlikely to be given many children to raise. > > Until about the 19th century nearly all babies were breastfed by either their mothers or wetnurses, so before that I’m not sure an isolated bunch of monks would have even known what they could safely feed a baby if someone did happen to bring them one. I’m vague on this but I’ve heard that historically children often weren’t weaned until they were at least 2-3 years old, in which case a child old enough to be weaned would be old enough to have some awareness that women exist. Again, we are not talking about the norm here. Just that such things have certainly happened. > **[A History of Infant Feeding](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2684040/)** > > The historical evolution of infant feeding includes wet nursing, the feeding bottle, and formula use. Before the invention of bottles and formula, wet nursing was the safest and most common alternative to the natural mother's breastmilk. Society's... > [@](#): > > The use of animal’s milk for infant feeding is noted as far back as 2000 BC. Since then, alternative milk sources have evolved to include the synthetic formulas of today. Best option was goat’s milk; people also used cow and horse milk. Pap (bread soaked in water or milk) and panada (cereals ground very fine and stewed), fruit juice and rice water, and watered molassas. All kinds of things. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-you-were-raised-without-knowledge-of-the-opposite-sex/714226/28 "2015-03-08T00:01:44Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Again, we are not talking about the norm here. Just that such things have certainly happened. Well, your first post on the subject made it sound like you thought it _was_ the norm for convents and monasteries to be extremely isolated single-sex environments. I don’t think it’s impossible that some children might at some point in history have been brought up in an isolated monastery/convent where they never met a woman/man, but unless there’s some actual evidence of this then I’d consider it far from certain. Since the Bible talks a lot about men, women, marriage, sex, childbearing, etc., a child raised in even the most isolated religious community would presumably hear plenty about the opposite sex. They’d also likely see artistic depictions of saints and figures from the Bible…and not necessarily ones wearing modest robes. Adam and Eve are usually shown nude or nearly nude in religious art, and [St. Sebastian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Sebastian) is often depicted in a weirdly sexy manner. > [@](#): > > Best option was goat’s milk; people also used cow and horse milk. Pap (bread soaked in water or milk) and panada (cereals ground very fine and stewed), fruit juice and rice water, and watered molassas. All kinds of things. I didn’t say there was nothing but breastmilk that a baby _could_ eat, I said I doubted that a bunch of monks living in an isolated monastery would have _known_ what else to feed a baby. This doesn’t seem like the sort of information that would normally be of much use to monks, and if they’re in an isolated religious community where they’re not allowed to interact with women they’d have little opportunity to ask anyone who would know. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-you-were-raised-without-knowledge-of-the-opposite-sex/714226/29 "2015-03-08T01:55:31Z")
“Stand back! I don’t know how big this thing gets!” I can’t believe no one went with that so far. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-if-you-were-raised-without-knowledge-of-the-opposite-sex/714226.md?page=1)