# What Would Happen (Politically) If Spitzer Doesn't Resign? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880 "2008-03-10T20:40:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/21 "2008-03-12T20:22:15Z")
I think it’s more than the Mann act… he was also laundering money… and if he sent money through the US Post office, that’s mail fraud. When he initially made his announcement on Monday, I thought for sure he was trying to cut his best deal. But after hearing him speak today I think he’s going to be disbarred as well as be charged with crimes… i don’t think he’s walking from this with a deal. He said it himself that he’s held to a higher standard and that he’s accountable for his actions. I think he’s going down. I could be wrong, but, I think he’s “screwed”. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/22 "2008-03-12T20:27:35Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I think it will all blow over after a few months. It’s New York, not Alabama. The State Legislature still has a job to do and I don’t see why specific policies would suddenly change just because the Governor (Heaven forfend!) ordered a hooker. Does anyone really, sincerely care? I know the Republicans will try to make an issue of it, but I don’t think it’s a can of worms they really want opened. It would be too easy for Spitzer to complile a list of all the republicans in the NY State Legislature who patronize escort services. [/QUOTE] I think the feds are the ones that are making this an issue. And it wouldn’t have been such a big deal if he wasn’t such a hard-assed hypocrite who was hellbent on destroying others for the same kind of crimes; and destroying others who were innocent.. There are many people gloating today, not just the republicans. Spitzer is the epitome of arrogance and bullying. This is karma at its finest. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/23 "2008-03-12T20:29:33Z")
oh, you know what, spitzer did a fine job of taking down a perfectly respectable ;)prostitution ring… and now all these high-profile johns are probably horrified that they will be exposed. Nice going, spitz ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/24 "2008-03-12T20:30:10Z")
[QUOTE=JohnnieEnigma] I think it’s more than the Mann act… he was also laundering money [/quote] He wasn’t “laundering” money, he allegedly was “structuring payments,” which is different from laundering. He might have been concealing what he did with his money , but it turns out he had a perfectly innocent explanation, so I see no reason to prosecute. > [@](#): > > … and if he sent money through the US Post office, that’s mail fraud. Cite that he used the Post Office and how is mailing his own money (which he did not gain by any illegal or illegitimate means) “mail fraud?” > [@](#): > > When he initially made his announcement on Monday, I thought for sure he was trying to cut his best deal. But after hearing him speak today I think he’s going to be disbarred as well as be charged with crimes… i don’t think he’s walking from this with a deal. He said it himself that he’s held to a higher standard and that he’s accountable for his actions. I think he’s going down. > > I could be wrong, but, I think he’s “screwed”. I think you’re wrong. I’m guessing it’s over. And do lawyers routinely get disbarred for banging call girls? I think that’s a pretty far fetched. Nothing he did involved subverting or corrupting anything in the courts. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/25 "2008-03-12T20:33:43Z")
[QUOTE=JohnnieEnigma] I think the feds are the ones that are making this an issue. And it wouldn’t have been such a big deal if he wasn’t such a hard-assed hypocrite who was hellbent on destroying others for the same kind of crimes; and destroying others who were innocent.. There are many people gloating today, not just the republicans. Spitzer is the epitome of arrogance and bullying. This is karma at its finest. [/QUOTE] That’s the crux of it right there, it isn’t that he really did anything so terrible, it’s just that people who don’t like him want to use this rather minor indiscretion to destroy him. Even if he’s a hypocrite, two wrongs don’t make a right. At the end of the day, all he really did was cheat on his wife. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/26 "2008-03-12T20:34:46Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] He wasn’t “laundering” money, he allegedly was “structuring payments,” which is different from laundering. He might have been concealing what he did with his money , but it turns out he had a perfectly innocent explanation, so I see no reason to prosecute. Cite that he used the Post Office and how is mailing his own money (which he did not gain by any illegal or illegitimate means) “mail fraud?” I think you’re wrong. I’m guessing it’s over. And do lawyers routinely get disbarred for banging call girls? I think that’s a pretty far fetched. Nothing he did involved subverting or corrupting anything in the courts. [/QUOTE] He’s not your regular john. He was the former NYS attorney general and the current governor…and as a result he’s held to a different standard. It might sound far fetched if he was just the regular john, say like, Trump. But it’s not the case for Spitzer… I’ll bet he’s at least disbarred. We’ll see… ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/27 "2008-03-12T20:36:43Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] That’s the crux of it right there, it isn’t that he really did anything so terrible, it’s just that people who don’t like him want to use this rather minor indiscretion to destroy him. Even if he’s a hypocrite, two wrongs don’t make a right. At the end of the day, all he really did was cheat on his wife. [/QUOTE] We’ll see if that’s all he did at the end of the day… we’ll see if he’s charged with anything. We don’t know all the real details yet. I don’t think he would have resigned if it was just a matter of him cheating on his wife. His wife even encouraged him not to resign… but apparently the feds and his attorneys suggested that he did. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/28 "2008-03-12T21:39:39Z")
> [@](#): > > He wasn’t “laundering” money, he allegedly was “structuring payments” He wasn’t euphemistically structuring payments. He’s alleged to have transferred large sums of cash into shell companies and then transferred payments from those bogus accounts to a Brooklyn-based escort service. His sole intent was to conceal his identity \*and \* avoid piquing the interest of the tax men. That’s the literal definition of money laundering. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/29 "2008-03-12T22:27:26Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s the crux of it right there, it isn’t that he really did anything so terrible, it’s just that people who don’t like him want to use this rather minor indiscretion to destroy him. Even if he’s a hypocrite, two wrongs don’t make a right. At the end of the day, all he really did was cheat on his wife. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the idea, prostitution is still illegal. Governor Spitzer was repeatedly breaking the law as well as cheating on his wife. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/30 "2008-03-12T22:40:29Z")
[QUOTE=JohnBckWLD] He wasn’t euphemistically structuring payments. He’s alleged to have transferred large sums of cash into shell companies and then transferred payments from those bogus accounts to a Brooklyn-based escort service. His sole intent was to conceal his identity \*and \* avoid piquing the interest of the tax men. That’s the literal definition of money laundering. [/QUOTE] No. money laundering is about concealing the source of one’s ill-gotten income. This was Spitzer’s own money. he wasn’t concealing its source, he was concealing his purchases. I don’t know why that’s against the law. He wasn’t concealing income. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/31 "2008-03-12T23:59:26Z")
Doesn’t that count as his being accessory to the Emperors’ Club evading \*its \* taxes? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/32 "2008-03-13T02:13:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Doesn’t that count as his being accessory to the Emperors’ Club evading its taxes? IANAL, but I’m guessing the legal liability of being responsible for somebody else evading their taxes is pretty narrow. I leave a cash tip on the table rather than add it to my credit card bill. Does that make it theoretically easier for my waiter to avoid claiming it as income and paying tax on it? Sure. But his decison to evade his taxes is not my responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/33 "2008-03-13T03:59:40Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Bill broke no laws with his trysts. [/QUOTE] So why was he disbarred? 😕😕 ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/34 "2008-03-13T04:07:42Z")
[QUOTE=Plan B] So why was he disbarred? 😕😕 [/QUOTE] For lying under oath about the sex… but not for the sex itself. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/35 "2008-03-13T15:17:43Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No. money laundering is about concealing the source of one’s ill-gotten income. This was Spitzer’s own money. he wasn’t concealing its source, he was concealing his purchases. I don’t know why that’s against the law. He wasn’t concealing income. [/QUOTE] From the [news today](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080313/pl_nm/newyork_spitzer_dc_35;_ylt=AlmRAcSUK4jrNLpLj3yR71QE1vAI), a charge of money laundering is still a possibility: > [@](#): > > Indeed, his legal worries are likely far from over. > > Spitzer, who came into office in 2007 promising to clean up state politics, faces the possibility of federal criminal charges over how he may have paid for prostitution services, specifically charges of structuring, which entail payments made so as to conceal their purpose and source. > > Another violation may involve money laundering, if payments made to the suspected prostitution ring’s shell corporations are found to be part of a larger conspiracy, legal experts said. It’s a mischaracterization of the facts to say that all he did was cheat on his wife. You may think what he did should not be illegal, but that doesn’t make it legal. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/36 "2008-03-13T15:22:46Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] From the [news today](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080313/pl_nm/newyork_spitzer_dc_35;_ylt=AlmRAcSUK4jrNLpLj3yR71QE1vAI), a charge of money laundering is still a possibility: It’s a mischaracterization of the facts to say that all he did was cheat on his wife. You may think what he did should not be illegal, but that doesn’t make it legal. [/QUOTE] That doesn’t say there’s any evidence of money laundering. It’s only a tautological statement taht he could be charged with money laundering if there’s any evidence of money laundering (which there isn’t). He tried to conceal what he was using his own money for. That’s not laundering. No matter how sinister you try to make his actions out to be, it still adds up to nothing but cheating on his wife. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/37 "2008-03-13T15:31:18Z")
> [@DtC](#): > > No. money laundering is about concealing the source of one’s ill-gotten income. Not according to the US criminal code: > [@](#): > > [§ 1956. Laundering of monetary instruments](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1956.html#a) > > (a) > (1) Whoever, knowing that the property involved in a financial transaction represents the proceeds of some form of unlawful activity, conducts or attempts to conduct such a financial transaction which in fact involves the proceeds of specified unlawful activity— > (A) > (i) with the intent to promote the carrying on of specified unlawful activity; or > (ii) with intent to engage in conduct constituting a violation of section 7201 or 7206 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986; or > (B) knowing that the transaction is designed in whole or in part— > (i) to conceal or disguise the nature, the location, the source, the ownership, or the control of the proceeds of specified unlawful activity; or > (ii) to avoid a transaction reporting requirement under State or Federal law, > shall be sentenced to a fine of not more than $500,000 or twice the value of the property involved in the transaction, whichever is greater, or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/38 "2008-03-13T15:46:16Z")
You should look up what “proceeds” means. He wasn’t hiding or laundering any “proceeds.” He was using his own money which was not gotten through any illegal means. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/39 "2008-03-13T15:59:56Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] You should look up what “proceeds” means. He wasn’t hiding or laundering any “proceeds.” He was using his own money which was not gotten through any illegal means. [/QUOTE] No. You should look up what “transaction reporting” means. I have given you the facts, but I guess I can’t force you to accept them. I’m simply going to state, for the last time, that you are wrong. You’ve been proven wrong. If you want to continue posting factually incorrect information, I can’t stop you. The wikipedia article explains things as well: > [@](#): > > Money laundering is the practice of engaging in financial transactions in order to conceal the identity, source, and/or destination of money, and is a main operation of the underground economy. > > In the past, the term “money laundering” was applied only to financial transactions related to organized crime. Today its definition is often expanded by government regulators (such as the United States Office of the Comptroller of the Currency) to encompass any financial transaction which generates an asset or a value as the result of an illegal act, which may involve actions such as tax evasion or false accounting. As a result, the illegal activity of money laundering is now recognized as potentially practiced by individuals, small and large businesses, corrupt officials, members of organized crime (such as drug dealers or the Mafia) or of cults, and even corrupt states, through a complex network of shell companies and trusts based in offshore tax havens. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880/40 "2008-03-13T16:07:08Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No. You should look up what “transaction reporting” means. I have given you the facts, but I guess I can’t force you to accept them. I’m simply going to state, for the last time, that you are wrong. You’ve been proven wrong. If you want to continue posting factually incorrect information, I can’t stop you. [/QUOTE] Learn how to parse what you’re reading. I’m NOT wrong. The clause you’re quoting from is dependent on the transaction being made with illegally obtained _proceeds_. Read the entire thing again and remember that everything after (A) is dependent on (a)(1). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-happen-politically-if-spitzer-doesnt-resign/440880.md?page=3)