# What would have happened to Switzerland if Germany had won WWII? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 26, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530 "2015-06-26T13:51:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/21 "2015-06-26T23:53:08Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I presume you mean Schweiz. As has been said, they probably would not. The citizens of Suisse, Svizzera, and Svizra certainly would not. I have to agree. I had a very good Swiss friend and we discussed this at some length. He thought that even the German speaking Swiss hated the Nazis and the French, Italian, and Romantsch speakers even more so. Some above said that the German speaking Swiss were ethnically German, but I find this claim meaningless. The Swiss Confederation had formed in opposition to a German Duke in 1291 and remain committed to not being German. According to my friend, the languages were not even mutually comprehensible. My colleague who was born and lived in Germany until he was 16 told me that it took him nearly a year in Switzerland before he could understand Schwyzerdutsch. It would have been very costly for the Germans to have invaded. They could eventually have worn them down, but it would have taken a lot of resources and there was not much for them to gain. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/22 "2015-06-27T00:32:22Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > C.J. Sansom’s quite recent (2012) alternative-history thriller _Dominion_ – which I found compulsive reading – assigns an interestingly odd fate to Switzerland in a World-War-II-German-victory scenario. The novel is set in the UK in 1952: premise, Germany won in 1940, with a negotiated peace after the surrender of France (but still went on to attack the USSR in 1941). In 1952 the UK, and France, are in theory independent: in fact, are ruled at German behest, by far-right-wing despotic regimes. > > The book’s endpapers show fascinating maps of its 1952 geopolitical situation in Europe, and worldwide – the majority of this information irrelevant to the novel’s action, but still entertaining “to conjure with”. Among such (also mentioned in passing in the text), is that one of the few pre-1939 European countries to have been completely obliterated, is Switzerland. The country is shown as having been split up, annexing-wise: Germany gets markedly the largest part, with smaller sections going to Italy, and France. IIRC, no particularly strong reason is given for this having been done. One is prompted to wonder what the author has against Switzerland – maybe one time, he was overcharged for a plate of _Zurcher geschnetzeltes_ 😕 … Nazi plans for a possible invasion of Switzerland [did apparently include maybe divvying up the place](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum#German_plans_for_Nazi_rule_in_Switzerland) between them and their Fascist Italian little buddies. There was apparently no plan to give any part of Switzerland to France, but on the other hand it’s not totally impossible to imagine a victorious Third Reich changing its mind and letting a German-dominated French puppet state have a little slice [from the purple part](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Karte_Schweizer_Sprachgebiete_2015.png) to compensate for Germany [having taken Alsace-Lorraine again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine#World_War_II). ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/23 "2015-06-27T01:35:40Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I am sure that the citizens of der Schweize would have voted to be absorbed into the Reich…just like Austria did. > [@Colibri](#): > > I presume you mean Schweiz. As has been said, they probably would not. The citizens of Suisse, Svizzera, and Svizra certainly would not. Plus it’s **die** Schweiz, not der. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/24 "2015-06-27T01:44:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I spoke at length with a Belgian who was a customer at the library, and had an on going fight concerning Belgium during the First World War with Barbara Tuchman. > He told me that French and German is spoken in Belgium. > “What kind of German?” > “Why, good German!” he responded indignantly. > 🙂 I understand that at the easternmost extremity of Belgium – the Eupen and Malmedy areas – the majority language is (fairly standard) German: this region having been taken from Germany and awarded to Belgium as part of the sorting-out of things after World War I, I believe largely to compensate Belgium re sufferings in that war at German hands. If I have things rightly, in Luxembourg “next door”, the vernacular language is related to German; but every bit as unlike normal German, as Schwyzerdutsch is. > [@MEBuckner](#): > > Nazi plans for a possible invasion of Switzerland [did apparently include maybe divvying up the place](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum#German_plans_for_Nazi_rule_in_Switzerland) between them and their Fascist Italian little buddies. There was apparently no plan to give any part of Switzerland to France, but on the other hand it’s not totally impossible to imagine a victorious Third Reich changing its mind and letting a German-dominated French puppet state have a little slice [from the purple part](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Karte_Schweizer_Sprachgebiete_2015.png) to compensate for Germany [having taken Alsace-Lorraine again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine#World_War_II). Interesting that this was a might-have-been for real life, not just a fancy on Mr. Sansom’s part. On the map accompanying his novel, Alsace-Lorraine is indeed shown as having been annexed from France, and fully integrated into Germany. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/25 "2015-06-27T01:46:46Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Plus it’s **die** Schweiz, not der. “Never say die.” Jesus, you guys are nit pickers. 🙂 See [Mark Twain.](http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2011414/pg1) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/26 "2015-06-27T01:51:59Z")
It’s die Shweiz, goddamit! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/27 "2015-06-27T01:59:34Z")
Not sure if it’s already been linked, but [\*\*here’s an interesting Wiki article \*\*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_%28Nazism%29)describing Hitler’s and the Nazi’s plans for the rest of the world (including Africa and North & South America) once they won the war. Hitler planed on leaving most of the Pacific to Japan (including Australia and New Zealand), although he also felt that, eventually, the Aryan race would still dominate the Asians. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/28 "2015-06-27T01:59:37Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > But have you heard Schweizerdeutsch? You’d be hard pressed to call that German. One people divided by one language. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Some above said that the German speaking Swiss were ethnically German, but I find this claim meaningless. IANAH (it’s usually a bad sign in a debate if you have to point this out). Anyway, my previous post on the subject does not represent my views, the views of the Swiss people, or the views of anyone else in the contemporary world. I was explaining what Hitler’s views were, which was something Europeans had to take into account during that unfortunate era. He regarded many Swiss people as being ethnically German even if they didn’t regard themselves as such. And therefore he felt these “Germans” should be living inside his Deutsches Reich, just like the Osterreichers, the Sudentanlanders, the Elsassers, the Lothringers, the Flamingers, the Baltendeutsche, the Wolgadeutsche, and all the other supposed Volksdeutsche. Except for the Sudtirolers of course. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/29 "2015-06-27T02:03:11Z")
If Germany had won, presumably they would have finally developed a nuclear bomb. Would they have just dropped a couple in Switzerland? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/30 "2015-06-27T02:13:37Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > If Germany had won, presumably they would have finally developed a nuclear bomb. Would they have just dropped a couple in Switzerland? Hitler discounted nuclear physics and the possibility of an atomic bomb as “Jewish physics”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/31 "2015-06-27T02:18:21Z")
I thought Hitler was working on his own version of a nuke and that the US was racing the clock to be the first but it just happened to win the war in Europe before final development by anyone? (Of course, losing all those Jewish scientists no doubt did hinder him a bit.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/32 "2015-06-27T02:23:25Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > If Germany had won, presumably they would have finally developed a nuclear bomb. Would they have just dropped a couple in Switzerland? To what end? Wiping out a couple of cities wouldn’t have made the Swiss less likely to carry out a guerrilla campaign from the mountains. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/33 "2015-06-27T02:24:23Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > To what end? Wiping out a couple of cities wouldn’t have made the Swiss less likely to carry out a guerrilla campaign from the mountains. Worked in Japan. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/34 "2015-06-27T02:41:48Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Worked in Japan. The Russians helped. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/35 "2015-06-27T02:49:04Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > Interesting that this was a might-have-been for real life, not just a fancy on Mr. Sansom’s part. On the map accompanying his novel, Alsace-Lorraine is indeed shown as having been annexed from France, and fully integrated into Germany. Well, in real life, after France was occupied, Alsace-Lorraine was annexed from France and integrated into Germany as Gau Westmark and Gau Baden. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/36 "2015-06-27T03:08:56Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I thought Hitler was working on his own version of a nuke and that the US was racing the clock to be the first but it just happened to win the war in Europe before final development by anyone? The Nazis did have a nuclear weapons program but it was operating at a pretty leisurely pace. The scientists in charge of it was mostly theoreticians rather than experimenters and most of the top-rated engineers were assigned to other development programs. The German scientists figured that it would take at least ten years for their program to produce a working bomb - by which time everyone in Germany expected they would have already won the war. The Germans also had a touch of arrogance. They assumed if it would take them a decade to build a bomb then it would take anyone else even longer. That’s why they were astonished in 1945 when they were told that the United States had just used a bomb against Japan. They had been taken in custody by the Americans at the end of the war and they felt could make a deal because they assumed the Americans wanted their knowledge. So it was a shock to realize they had been literally years behind the Americans. ---
**Author:** ![CaptainAmerica\_1987](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptainAmerica_1987)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/37 "2015-06-27T05:05:54Z")
If the Germans had won the EU would have happened 60 plus years earlier than it did. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/38 "2015-06-27T11:10:52Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I thought Hitler was working on his own version of a nuke and that the US was racing the clock to be the first but it just happened to win the war in Europe before final development by anyone? > > (Of course, losing all those Jewish scientists no doubt did hinder him a bit.) [Here’s a key scene from the great 1993 TV movie _Day One_](https://youtu.be/inZEKN82bE4?t=2218) about the bomb. Although it compresses things a little it’s facts are essentially correct in regards to the reasons the German scientists give for not having made a bomb. If you’ve never seen this film I highly recommend watching it. Much, **much** better than the Paul Newman theatrical film _Fat Man & Little Boy_… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/39 "2015-06-27T12:57:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They had been taken in custody by the Americans at the end of the war and they felt could make a deal because they assumed the Americans wanted their knowledge. So it was a shock to realize they had been literally years behind the Americans. Heisenberg did not believe them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530/40 "2015-06-28T05:38:04Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Heisenberg did not believe them. 🙂 Was he certain, though? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-happened-to-switzerland-if-germany-had-won-wwii/723530.md?page=3)